In this episode Tina Grimm, an adventure enthusiast and contestant on Netflix’s survival show ‘Outlast,’ discusses her passion for the outdoors, her artistic endeavors, and her experience on the show. She shares stories of overcoming personal adversity, including her escape from a violent relationship and coping with her mother’s dementia. Tina explores the importance of resilience, staying positive through hardships, and embracing life’s challenges to find personal growth. The conversation also delves into her creative process and how she integrates her love for nature into her artwork.
Episode Highlights:
19:16 Overcoming Personal Adversity
41:17 Empower Yourself with Positive Affirmations
43:48 The Power of Positivity and Support
45:09 Finding Strength in Creativity
50:12 Embracing Life’s Unexpected Paths
01:09:17 Caring for a Loved One with Dementia
01:15:49 Dealing with Online Negativity
Tina Grimm, born Christina Marie Grimm in Cleveland, Ohio, has been defying odds since birth. Overcoming severe hip dysplasia as an infant, she not only learned to walk but became an avid runner and runway model. A passionate artist from a young age, Tina entertained friends with imaginative plays and fashion shows while honing her talent for visual arts. After studying film and animation at the Columbus College of Art and Design, she found her calling in acting and modeling. Her standout roles in films like Never Escape and Detour have made her a celebrated figure in Cleveland’s indie film scene.
Learn more about Tina here: @tinagrimm
Episode Transcript:
00:32
Acta Non Verba is a Latin phrase that means actions, not words. If you want to know what somebody truly believes, don’t listen to their words. Instead, observe their actions. I’m Marcus Aurelius Anderson, and my guest today truly embodies that phrase. Tina Grimm with two M’s.
01:00
was a contestant on Netflix hit survival competition show, Outlast. She’s an adventure junkie and loves spending her free time exploring this year in Nevada mountains. She’s also an artist and fashion model. And we’re going to get into all those things and more. You can follow her on Instagram at Tina Graham with two M’s and Facebook as well. She has lots of areas of expertise and we’re going to go into all those things. I should have just hit record from the beginning because I think that there was some gold in there. But Tina, thank you for being with me today. Oh, you’re very welcome. Thank you for having me.
01:29
very excited and humbled to be here. Yeah, you just got done. You were describing your latest occupational hazard of being in a labyrinth on a photo shoot and how they had to come fetch you sometimes. So tell us about that. Yeah, I was blessed with a great group of people. We went to this manor down in Temecula and the property had a lot of awesome architecture but I saw this labyrinth maze and I’m just like, total vision, like I gotta go, I’m on a mission. And I…
01:58
We still had time before we were shooting, but I was all ready to go. And so I’m like, I’m going to go explore. And I got myself lost in the labyrinth. It was amazing. I’m a huge Jim Henson fan. It reflects a lot of my art. And so I went on my own little magical tour of the labyrinth. And I was hoping I’d see some fun stuff. And in my imagination, I did. All right, where’s the little worm that’s going to pop out and say, hello?
02:28
Hello. But yeah, it was fun. And then yeah, I did hear a voice say, hello, we’re going to get started. We need everybody. And I’m like, I mean, I was excited to shoot. I’m always excited to shoot. But when you’re in a really cool location, too, it’s kind of like, I wish I had just a little bit more time. But I’m not here for that. I’m here for something else. So it was so much fun. Well, now that’s a place that you can return to. Absolutely. It’s not that far from me. That’s the beauty when you mix your passion with your passion.
02:56
purpose in your profession that nicely comes together and dovetails in lots of ways that we wouldn’t have normally seen. And so we were saying how they had to stop you from actually creating a bushcraft shelter in the labyrinth. And there were so many things that you’re willing to do in the process of going out there and making yourself at home, so to speak. Yeah, I find myself in the outdoors and I like to make myself at home and sometimes, literally, I like to make myself at home. You know?
03:24
whip out those bushcrafting skills and try to make a lean-to or a nice little wiki up or some other kind of shelter. And on Outlast, I did get to use some of those skill sets, unfortunately. In the world of television, there’s a lot of editing. I hate to be the person in charge of doing that because there’s thousands of hours of footage. I mean, we’re mic’d 24-7. And there’s cameras everywhere, even when the crew takes their break in the evening. But I will like to say…
03:53
that I was the only one that actually made a bed off the ground. Uh, and you can’t see it because it was on our shelter. We had two parts of our shelter. We had the tarp, which we deemed the bear den because it was kind of damp, dark and cold. Um, and then we had the little, um, hut on the outside that we started calling the Shire. You know, we were all just a bunch of nerds. So we were embracing like everything, Lord of the Rings, all of it. And so when I, when I did make, make cot, I used to all their poles.
04:23
But about probably like maybe a four inch thickness. Eric on the team helped me cut them because we all had to share one hatchet. So he was pruning out on something else and so we were tossing it back and forth. And yeah, just had two like six foot long alder poles and then made notches about six inches apart to lay small branches about half an inch thick, kind of like bed springs. And the notches, the purpose of that is so they won’t shift around.
04:53
when you lay in it, but you can also move them to your comfort. And so it was kind of one of those, you don’t completely secure it. So you can move it wherever you want to. Um, and you just lay in the poles, you put the notches in and then you stuff it and pad it with pine boughs for, for cushioning. So you got a little like natural spring top mattress going on. And it was such a, it was such a cool thing. I just, again.
05:19
wish it was showing, but it wasn’t. But I’m glad that I can talk about it. And it’s something that’s super easy to do. And I’m excited too, because I do do a lot of your hiking and backpacking. Normally I set up camp and I go. But one of these days, I think I want to go out there and just make a little home for a few days. And then I’ll be able to show everybody what I can do. Yeah, you’re like, okay, I want to show you all the specifics. And I don’t know if people may understand the importance of getting…
05:48
your bed up off the ground because they just think, oh, well, it’s a place to sleep. But there’s always some sort of moisture. I mean, where you guys were at, there was plenty of precipitation, mud, anything that could be there. So I wonder why the other participants tried to raise their beds up. Well, they did in a sense where they kept using a lot of the pine boughs. So they were pulling the branches from the trees. So they did make kind of like a nest, but nothing that was very structured. It was just a pile.
06:17
of stuff to get themselves off. And I wanted a little bit more of not really security, but just something that was a little bit more comfortable and more sturdy because as you go on, the natural weight of gravity, everything’s gonna get compacted down. So you constantly every couple of days have to refresh it. But with the Cod, it made it easier because even though it was getting compressed, there was still that layer. So every time I added to it, I was raising myself up higher.
06:45
But it is very important because especially where we were, because it’s a temperate rainforest. So it rains over 200 days out of the year. So that soil is saturated. And when the temperatures get cooler too, it will literally suck the life out of you because it will draw your body heat out. But if you’re raised up, you have the air circulating around and it traps the body heat a little better. So survival 101. You would think, right? I was with…
07:14
I was with 10th Mountain Light Infantry. So we were up in upstate New York, 20 miles out the Canadian border. And at the infantry, you were not given tents. You were given a baby sack, a sleep system, and, you know, a small little blow up thing that you could put down. And I was like, what the hell good is this going to do? But as you were saying, when it’s negative 20 degrees out and you’re only getting about four hours of sleep, that small layer between you and the cold, cold ground that can actually give you that.
07:43
deep ability to get warm and really be able to recover when you’re pushing your body really hard. So like you said, getting up off the ground, it protects you, it keeps the creepy collies off of you, it gives you a lot of things with a lot of bang for the buck of the amount of effort as long as you have some foresight when you start. It makes a world of a difference and it’s a very small path to do too. It’s not very hard at all.
08:10
Do you know who Andrew Vesela is? He created the 75 Hard Program. He’s the first form CEO. You were talking about an axe before, and he made a comment. He was teaching us about this entrepreneurship lesson where he was talking about swinging the axe. And he said that sometimes guys get so lazy that they won’t actually do the right thing because they just think they can outwork a dull blade or a bad plan. And like you’re saying, being able to step back.
08:38
and take a look and say, where’s the high ground? Where’s the moisture going to accumulate? Where would I like to be? And then if I were able to lift this little sleep area up a few inches, that could be the world of difference. And like I said, starting from the beginning with that, because once we’re sort of in motion or once we get sleep up or caloric deficit or even mild dehydration, our cognition starts to sort of abandon us and stuff that seemed like it made so much sense all of a sudden.
09:07
It’s like, why am I having such a hard time with this? It’s like, you’re using the wrong end of the axe, you idiot. Why are you trying to do that? Yeah, your mind is like, I’m out of here. What are you doing? See you later, good luck. So people see the woman that they saw on the show, but you were also a model. And there was also a lot of things you’ve done before that. Were you in love with the woods before you were a model? Were you a model that was in love with the woods? What came first?
09:37
already inside you as a young girl? So as a young girl, my father was a huge influence in my love for the outdoors. He would take us camping. I never went on like any backpacking trips with him, but just car camping, which is plenty. It’s amazing, you know, it’s amazing for so many people. And even as a small child, just being able to get out there and pitch a tent. I’d go hiking with him all the time. He taught me so much about fishing. And it’s funny because my brother was not into it at all.
10:06
So I was like the son my dad never had because I’m like, let’s go and my brother’s like, just like no. The modeling thing came later on. I again, loved the outdoors. I was a tomboy, huge tomboy. The majority of my friends were guys. I was the little girl that would rather go run around and get dirty with the boys in the neighborhood, then play dress up and paint nails and play house and all that with the girls. I’m very proud of that.
10:36
It kind of made for a lonely life as I transitioned into like teenage years and getting into high school and all of that because I was kind of like the odd duck. But my passion really came from obviously the outdoors and art. I love to draw at a very young age as well. I went to college to study animation for a while. I wanted to be a Disney animator. And so I followed that path for a little while. And then the naivety of youth, I got sucked into a relationship and
11:04
Unfortunately, I made the decision to leave school. But I was probably in my early 20s when I decided, you know what, I really do want to try getting into modeling. I think at the time it was, it pains me to say it, but I think it was an attention getter at the time. Because I wasn’t used to getting attention, I was always the art nerd, the dork, but I had a few people mention to me, oh, you should try modeling. It’ll really boost your…
11:34
confidence. My aunt was a model back in the 70s. She she was big time. She did a lot overseas. She actually tried talking me out of it. She was like, it was a very ugly business. You don’t want to get into it. But you know, try it if you want to. But so I just started networking, getting in touch with a lot of photographers. And I did find that I really fell in love with it. I love the art of it. I loved that I could be somebody else.
12:01
in front of the camera, but still maintain who I was off of the camera. And so that was fun. And then that made me fall in love with like the whole acting genre, because it’s still it’s an art form in itself. And so just seeing the creativity of all of that and the different pieces that come together in different productions and the end results. And then as I went through that career, I still
12:24
worked on my outdoor skills. It kind of goes hand in hand with both of that. And I recently got to do a shoot where I got to combine both of those loves, like fashion in the wilderness, where I got a team together and we went up the mountains and just did this glorious fashion shoot in the middle of the woods. And it was just amazing. It was awesome. So I think I’ll always carry a little bit of that with me. That’ll never change. I just.
12:53
I love being outdoors, but I love creating art. And it was really fun too when I did audition for the show and I said, you know what? Yeah, I’m a model. And that’s gonna be kind of interesting because the hard thing with that is there is a stigma and this cliche that is attached to being a fashion model. So many of them, a lot of them is, you know, you’re not intelligent, you’re dumb, you’re stupid, you’re naive.
13:19
you know, your party girl or I mean, the list goes on and on. It just depends on which category you want to place it under. But it’s never, yes, models can be outside of the wilderness. Models have the knowledge or even the desire to want to do that. I could tell you how many times I’ve been on sets and we just, you know, small talk. What do you like to do? What are your hobbies? Oh, I like to throw a 30 pound bag on my back and go shlup around in the mountains for weeks on end and they’re like, are you joking? Right. And I’m like,
13:49
Oh, I would much rather go sit next to an alpine lake for 10 days than go to the salon and get my nails done or my hair done. And then that’s just who I am. There’s no shame on anybody who prefers to do the other stuff. So when I got the first call back for Outlast, the gentleman that I talked to said, you know, you are the first model that we’ve talked to for this show that is interested in doing this.
14:17
Right. So it just that that whole motion like, all right, I’m here. I’m going to represent a lot of my modeling friends They were just like, yeah, you know show them that we can be badasses too. And we know our stuff and I was like I got you it’s so funny because like you said there’s always these stereotypes and a Lot of the models that I know are incredibly resilient because they’ll put you guys and
14:42
We see an image, right? We don’t see if it’s freezing cold outside and you guys are wearing like a bathing suit. You’re expected to still get out there, work the camera, smile, act like you’re not freezing, act like the wind’s not ripping you apart, act like you’re not miserable waiting for them to get this light fixed or to wait for the sun to be where it needs to be. There is a lot of that required. And then a lot of the models I know are also, as you say, many of them are very intelligent. Many of them are multifaceted in many capacities and this just kind of plugs into what they’re
15:12
an additional aspect of who they are for their depth. And to your point about this capacity to say, I’m in front of this camera. This gives me a chance to really isolate the specific area or. Perspective of who I am. And now I can lean into it in a very real organic magnified way. And when that model steps away from the shoot, you still get to maintain that level.
15:42
of increase and now you’ve learned a lot and you’ve grown in some capacity. I’m sure there are people that are going out there and just kind of phoning it in and you know they’re miserable and they’re faking the smile but I believe that if we approach anything that we do with that sort of adventurous curiosity there’s nothing that we can’t gain from even the most difficult adversity. If we have that understanding that this is going to show me something, this is going to teach me something. On the other side of this I’ll look back and say.
16:10
Wow, I wouldn’t have learned that had I not gone through this thing. Absolutely. And it goes with what you said as well. Yeah. People don’t know that the conditions that we’re in when we’re in front of the camera, cause they do just see the final product, the still image of the end result and yeah, I just, I did another shoot on Saturday. There was a big festival in Hollywood for day of the dead and I got invited to be there and be all done up as a Katrina or a skeleton and yeah, that’s
16:39
I had the opportunity, I’ve never been body painted before. I’ve always had insecurities. Everybody does. Then people are like, you have nothing to be insecure about. But I do. I think I’m too harsh on myself, but I think we’re all our own worst critics. But I had this big antler piece and it was literally weaved into my hair. That was the only way you could anchor it on the head. And that thing was so tight.
17:05
I love the makeup artists and the hairstylists that helped me and they felt really bad too because after about 30 minutes, I’m like, oh, this feels like I’m getting a scalp. It hurts so bad. But you had a job to do and you still had to walk around and engage with everybody, take photographs. And so they knew I was in pain, but they’re like, you killed it. You couldn’t even tell. You had no discomfort on your face. You weren’t crying. You were out there just doing your thing and nobody would have ever known that it’s
17:35
felt like it was ripping your head off. I’m like, yeah, I suck it up. I came here for a job, I’m gonna do the job. And if I’m a little bit uncomfortable, then it only helps me grow to be a stronger person too, because you can bury that discomfort and still focus on your goals and what you need to do. And so, yeah, this is a really cool thing. I’m glad to have him off my head now.
18:00
Well, the images that I saw on your Instagram, it looked pretty tremendous. And then, as you said, the only meaning that adversity has is the meaning that we assign it. So, if you’re looking at this thing and say, this is going to suck and how many hours is this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, we can see it like that. We can also see it as this thing that’s going to be a catalyst to make us better. I think that you took it as this idea of saying the third path, which is…
18:28
I can choose to be aware of you and dictate that you are going to be insignificant to what I’m going to do. And I’m going to do whatever I need to do. I’m going to endure or outlast whatever is requisite to make this thing happen. And again, that’s if we choose to do those things, it doesn’t always have to be this thing that crushes us or those things that turns into a motivational video. It can simply be, and so what? I’m moving forward. I’m allowing this to do nothing to what I need to do.
18:57
I’m going to be focused, I’m going to be a professional. And now you can chalk that up to experience. So the next photo shoot that you go to, it’s like, well, at least I don’t feel like my hair is getting scalped out from my head in the process of doing that. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I use that way of looking at life in everything that I do. I’ve been through a lot. As you mentioned, I have a lot of layers. And I don’t want to bring the conversation into this, but I will because it’s a part of who I am. I had a daughter at a very young age.
19:25
It was a pretty toxic relationship that didn’t end very well. And so I’m a victim of domestic violence. When I told him I wanted to leave, it’s a long story, so I won’t get into the whole thing. But the point being is the relationship did end in my abduction and assault. He did take me, cure me in a car, drove me to a cornfield in the middle of nowhere and assaulted me to the point where I blacked out. But the point that I’m trying to make is I didn’t dwell on that negativity.
19:55
I rose up, I got strong, and I told myself I had a decision to make. I can let this define who I am or choose not to be defined by that happening to me. And so it’s the past. I look at it as something that happened. It’s something that I can’t change. It was a very traumatic experience, but I’m going to use that as a catalyst to…
20:21
be a stronger person, to not dwell on that negativity. I’ll talk about it and try to inspire other women who might be in a similar situation. I want to rise above that. I don’t wanna be the girl that that happened to. I wanna be the girl that, yes, survived it, but then I’m moving on with life because, yeah, it happened, but that’s not who I am. If that makes sense, it’s just, yeah, I chose to not.
20:50
let that be my anchor in life. I chose to break free of it and just keep moving on.
20:58
If that makes sense. I don’t know. I tried to find a very diplomatic way of saying it, but Just say it how you say it. It doesn’t have to be diplomatic and it’s hard to be Graceful or diplomatic about something that was so brutally personal to you at the time and As you say The way that you conduct yourself in the face of the diversity is an indication of how you will do everything else in your life
21:25
So by you seeing that and saying, I did not want this to happen, but I’m going to also choose to not be a victim of it. I’m going to choose to use this as something that will somebody, another female or even another male may hear what you’re saying now. And this can be the very thing that changes their life. So this is why it’s so important to tell our stories, not in this way of grandiosity and hey, look at me, but more like adversity is not a competition.
21:53
There are people that have gone through much greater adversity than what you and I have, but there are also people that haven’t gone through anything like what you just described. And yet you being able to be resilient and describe, listen, while that was not your fault, this is still your life and you have to live it. And if you allow that person to continually influence how you move forward, then you will allow them to assault you for the rest of your life. Absolutely. Wow, I had no idea. Yeah. I told you I have a lot of layers. Good and bad.
22:23
But you know, and I guess I wouldn’t say that it was bad. The act of it was bad, of course. But again, it’s just, that’s life. Some people have harder lives than others. Some people have easier lives. Some have more traumatic lives than others. And it’s not a comparison game at all. It’s just, we’re all here. We’re all navigating our own journey. There are different bumps in the roads, roadblocks, whatever you may call it. And we just have to…
22:52
keep staying true to ourselves and trust in who we are and stay positive and just keep moving forward. Because there is no gain in dwelling on negative things. It’s only going to drag you down. It’s only going to slow you down in your process to wherever you want to go in your life’s journey. And so I try to look at everything as a positive, everything as a learning opportunity.
23:21
It’s a very powerful thing too. And I think that’s something that so many people should, should at least try. You know, even if you spill your cup of coffee, don’t get mad about it. Go get another cup of coffee. It’s not the end of the world. So I try to be positive and I have people when I share my story, ask me all the time, you know, well, how can you be such a cheery person? How can you be this happy and just talk about it? Like it’s whatever. And like, because I choose to, it’s not that hard.
23:50
And that’s always going to be there. Those memories are always going to be there, but I can choose to reflect on them all the time and let it bring me down or say, it happened. I survived. I got through it and I’m going to move on. I mean, it really isn’t that difficult when you set your mind to it and you accept and embrace that I want to live a positive life. I want to keep going forward.
24:19
I couldn’t agree more. I think it comes down to, like you said, that commitment. And I know this is going to ruffle some feathers, but it seems like today we live in this very domesticated sort of existence, especially in the United States and the West, where we have technology that can literally, I can push a button now and food will be delivered or whatever I see on the screen can be within my hands within 24 hours. But what that does is that makes our resilience completely go in the toilet. We can’t.
24:49
Unless it’s something that’s exactly what we want. Everything just seems to be this torturous existence. But all the people that I’ve met like yourself that are strong, that have actually gone through some sort of real hardship, because I never met a person that’s really strong that has not gone through some sort of adversity. There’s a direct correlation to how much they can endure, how much they can process it, let it go through them, not hold onto it, not ruminate, but run through them. And now they say, okay, that happened.
25:19
now what? What am I going to choose to do? And the people that I’ve met that when I’ve talked to hundreds of like doctors, psychiatry, psychologists, and they say that the people that we see that are constantly playing that victim mentality of a it’s this person’s fault, or that’s why I didn’t get it or I didn’t get a good break or whatever it is. It’s like, those are people that are voluntarily choosing to be a victim. And they enjoy it because it’s one of the most self serving selfish.
25:48
Mentalities you can have because you get all the attention of look at me look at how bad it is for me But you never have to get that bothersome amount of taking any sort of like responsibility Or asking how you’ve been complicit and allowing this to continue to happen And they paint themselves themselves in this corner to where that’s who they are. That’s their definition of existence But every person I met like yourself has been strong They have removed themselves even from that mentality is been like I don’t want to think of myself like that person I am NOT a victim
26:18
I’m a person that’s gone through something difficult. Yeah, but I am not a victim. And that’s why they’re able to continue to do incredible things with their lives. And then again, the way that you conducted yourself is gonna be an inspiration for other people that are finding themselves in a similar situation, one that’s greater, one that’s lesser, irrespective of what it is. We’re going to give them that inspiration, that hope, or that wherewithal to say, just like you said, just like with a hike, yeah, this is a steep incline, but sitting here on my ass crying about it is not gonna get me there.
26:47
have to keep putting one foot in front of the other. And we can choose to bitchy complain every time we do it. But if we do this enough times, eventually we realize even that doesn’t help us. So why not just suck it up and try to get up there as quickly as you can and get to the next thing. And you know, with hiking there are many times like especially when I go on through hikes. Then a couple years ago, I hiked the John Muir trail with my husband. We did it over 22 days. It was originally supposed to be me because he was like, I don’t have to.
27:16
to prove myself to anybody. Because he’s actually the one that got me into thru-hiking. My father did introduce me to the outdoors and all of its wonderful things. And real quick, explain to our listeners who may not know what thru-hiking actually is. So thru-hiking is where you bring all your gear with you. Self-sufficient. So it’s not a…
27:37
like a car camping situation where you just pack all of your gear into the car, you drive to a spot, you set your camp and then you hang out and drink beers, roast marshmallows, do whatever you want to do or just hang out in nature. And I love that too. My daughter is totally, she will car camp all day. But if I try to talk, let’s go through hiking, which yeah, you, you are self sufficient. You literally wear everything that you need on your back in your bag. So your, your water filtration system, your tent, your sleeping pad, your clothes, your cookware, like all of it. And you literally just
28:07
pick your destination and you go. You hike 10, 20 miles a day, however far you want to go. And then you set up your camp, get some rest, and then hit repeat for day after day or week after week, month after month. It just depends on your goal. And I love it. It’s very exciting. It’s very challenging. It does take a toll on your body because you are carrying a lot of weight. You’re hiking a lot of miles. You’re exhausted. But…
28:34
With true hiking, it’s always an adventure because every night is different. Every camp is different. You’re constantly seeing something new. But with getting back to the JMT, I told my husband, I wanted to do it because we had gone out for like about 10 days before, and I’m like, I really want to do the JMT. I think this is going to be amazing. And for those who don’t know what that is, it is a portion of the Pacific Crest Trail. Typically people hike it from Mount Whitney into Yosemite Valley, or you can flip flop it.
29:03
and go the other way. A lot of people do like to start in Yosemite and finish on Whitney. So I guess it’s just a personal preference. But we started south and went north. But yeah, he was like, Yeah, I don’t have to prove myself. People who do long trails have to prove something or prove themselves to anybody. And I’m like, No, like you have all people who taught me to love this sport should know it’s about the experience. It’s about having time to reflect within yourself and become more in tune with nature.
29:32
Just because I’m hiking 230 miles doesn’t mean I’m like, look at me, look at the world. Like, yeah, I’m doing it for me. And I think one, when I was starting to fill out the permit process, he was like, so do you mind if he started to get more pumped and excited about it? The more he looked into it and was like, yeah, maybe, maybe she’s right. Maybe it isn’t a, you know, I got to prove anything to anybody. It’s just going out there and enjoying it. And
30:02
So there were moments on that trail where, yeah, it sucked. I mean, it’s not always fun. It’s not always scenic. I mean, it is always scenic and picture ass, but it gets very strenuous on your body. It gets very difficult. And we learned very quickly that it doesn’t do any good to feel like this sucks because you look around and you see all of the peaks and it’s like, this is beautiful. We’re in a place that not a lot of people.
30:31
will ever get to see whether they just choose not to or they don’t even know about it or they have a condition where they physically can’t. And so it’s a very humbling and spiritual thing too, just to be like, I’m here. I am here. And so there’s no point in complaining about it and bitching about it. So we had this little mantra just like embrace the suck. If we’re going up a pass and we got to climb like…
30:57
3000 feet over like a mile. So it’s constantly going all the way up. Like let’s embrace this stuff and go because you know, that summit and that view is going to be worth it. And you do it and you have to look at life that way too. You just, you have to embrace the stuff. You have to just accept the hardships and just keep hiking up that mountain because once you get to the top, it’s, it makes everything worth it. Yeah. Once you’ve overcome the adversity, all the hardship that you went through feels irrelevant when you’re up there looking just like, man, I forgot about that stuff.
31:28
Yeah. And then you look back at where you came from and you’re like, I just did that. I did that. And you have this sense of such humbling accomplishment, like, wow. And it opens up your mind to what you are fully capable of when you just keep moving forward. It also makes you reflect back on those pockets of your existence where you say, man, I could have been doing this even back then. I wish I had done this sooner. Where else am I holding back? It keeps us very honest.
31:57
I called it an adversity scale. So we all have a 10 where there’d be physically, emotionally, spiritually, financially, where we’ve gone through the hardest part. And I like to ask myself, like you said, you got that ruck on and you’re going and your feet are hurting and your shoulders and your traps are screaming. If you stop for a second and just take a breath and go, okay, this is my hardest thing I ever went through up here. Where is this really track? And it’s like, it’s maybe a two. Yeah.
32:27
Yeah, suck it up and then you move on and then you realize it gives you that ability to have that active gratitude in real time. It becomes that physical mantra that you take with you anywhere you go, no matter what you face. And here’s the thing, 99% of the time it’s never the hardest thing we’ve ever done. But in those times when it is, if we’ve done this work leading up to it, we can actually see that as that catalyst, as that thing that pushes me in a cycle. I’m already here. I can’t get out any other way. I’m going to have to hoof it out anyway.
32:56
I have to self-rescue. So this is gonna be the thing that’s gonna make me level up. And then like you said, a week later, you look back as you’re tending to the blisters on your feet and you’re like, man, that was crazy. I can’t wait for that next one. Yeah, absolutely. I did a solo hike literally about a month before outlast. I went up to, yes, I love Yosemite. I got married in Yosemite. It’s like my happy place. It’s such a magical area. Nobody’s, if you’ve never been, I highly recommend going.
33:24
And so I did a six day solo hike out there around an area called the Grand Canyon of Tuolumne. And it’s not a very popular visited area because everybody likes, they think of you somebody to go to the Valley and they see all the waterfalls and El Capitan and Cap Town and all that. But I wanted to go somewhere that not a lot of people typically go. And when I do go out, I try to do like a video diary to share it with, with others just to kind of share my journey, good and bad. And there’s, there’s a peak called Mount Hoffman.
33:52
And it’s not very high. I think it’s maybe like 10,000 feet. Maybe that is high, you know, saying it now, but, but for me, used to going to the Sierras, you know, it’s, it’s average elevation for that around there, but I don’t have a fear of heights, but I do have a fear of falling and a lot of people like, well, doesn’t that kind of go hand in hand? Not really. No, I can stand, you know, thousands of feet up and be totally fine, but.
34:21
there is this uneasiness that makes me feel like, yeah, what if I fall? And so I wanted to climb this peak and at the top of it, it’s kind of like a rock scramble. You do have to boulder up to the top. And I’m like, and it was something for me that I wanted to do for myself to push myself. And I’m like, all right, I’m going to go. I had my mindset. I’m like, I’m going to go, I’m going to do it. I’m going to get to the top, got to the top. And then I looked at how to get back down and my heart just sank because I’m like,
34:50
Oh no. Like, I’m so excited to get up here. I’m enjoying the views. And then I’m turning back like, this is going to scare the crap out of me. How am I going to do it? But I knew that you made it up. You’re going to be able to get back down. You have to get back down. You can’t stay up there. And so I just pumped myself up. And I’m like, you’re capable of this. You can do this. You’ve done stuff like this before with other people. It’s no different that you’re by yourself.
35:18
And there was nobody up there, it was completely alone. So of course, you know, the worries of like, my gosh, if I slip and fall, is anybody gonna hear me? What’s gonna happen? Am I gonna get help? And I always carry my little SOS, my Garmin with me, as a fail safe. But it was just that fear, it was really embedding it into me. And I sat up there for about an hour, and I’m like, okay, it’s starting to get dark, I should probably go back down. It’s gonna take me about an hour and a half to get back to camp. So I make my way down, and I’m realizing that this isn’t that bad.
35:47
Like I let that fear build up so much in my head that I was terrified. But once I pushed myself to start going, yeah, there, it was like the light clicked on and it’s like, you’re worrying for nothing, like you got this. And when I got down, it even shows in my video I have on YouTube about it. I was so excited. When I get excited, I.
36:10
I might not look like the person that does it, but I just swear a lot when I’m happy. I say the F word a lot when I get super, super genuinely pumped. Beautiful. I’m like, I believe I did this. Oh my God, I’m so excited. It’s that genuine, you’re so proud of yourself. I was super excited. I’m like, I did this. I can’t believe I did that. It was just such a great feeling. So it was a lesson for me too, just not to let your personal fears anchor you down and hold you back.
36:38
because at the end of the day, it is a mind game. And if you’re strong enough just to be like, no, I trust in my capabilities, I trust in what I’m able to do, then it’s an afterthought. And so from that day, I’m just like, I’ve told my husband, I’m like, all right, let’s go, let’s go. I wanna go, like, I wanna learn rock climbing though. I wanna do this, I wanna do that. Because I was just like so jazzed about it. It’s also beautiful because you made a point about two things. The only thing we need,
37:07
We need two things to be able to accomplish anything, a deadline and no other choice. So most of the time in this life, we can circumvent a deadline or no other choice pretty much at will. But for you, once you were up there, like you said, there was no other choice, the choice is simple. And then knowing that the sun’s coming down and seeing where the sun is with your hand, you’re like, I’ve got two hours maybe. It’s like, I better get my ass down, whatever that looks like. And all of a sudden, like you said,
37:35
When you’re committed, when there’s no other choice, when there’s a deadline, you start to realize I’m making this bigger than what it needs to be. I’m making that mountain out of a molehill. And now that thing that used to seem impossible, all of a sudden, like you said, that’s just sort of like check what’s the next thing. And it shows us that these other areas where we’re under indexing. So if we have the capacity to either ask somebody external from us or. Even using social media, some way to kind of give us these.
38:05
very clear, definitive, bright lines about this is my expectations, my deadline, this is my metric, and this is me committing to it. That can be something that can really leverage us in a way. And now we’ve kind of given our word and now it’s not just thought in our mind. It’s this thing that we’re bringing to fruition. And that’s, that’s a powerful lever for many people. I think they should use that more often. I agree. So we were talking about Shell earlier. Yeah. And.
38:34
You were discussing how you’re your own worst critic. I think we all are to an extent. And I was asking her about her mindset and about what she was telling herself when she was going through some of these things. There was a part in her 40 day adventure when she’s in the badlands and they’re in the rainforest and the shelter is sagging and the water is the torrential downpour is just coming and they’re being eaten by mosquitoes and the fires out.
39:02
And she’s just kind of got, she’s sitting, she’s got her knees kind of wrapped up. She’s hugging herself. She’s kind of rocking back and forth. And I’m like, what are you telling yourself in that time? And she said, I remind myself that I asked for this. I remind myself that I wanted this. And then it just becomes that loop that keeps her. You asked for it. You’ve got it.
39:28
Now, what are you going to do now? What has to be true? What do I have to do differently to endure this thing? And does it just simply mean to accept the fact that it’s going to suck? We have to accept adversity on its terms, not ours. Because adversity doesn’t give a shit about our opinion or what we would rather to be or how it should be is like, it doesn’t matter. This is the reality. Are you willing to endure this thing? And when we can suffer with patients, it’s amazing what we can accomplish. It really is.
39:56
It’s definitely true. You know, a lot of the situations you go through in life, you put yourself there, whether it be by actions or decisions made. And if things don’t go as planned, you do have to remind yourself, well, I’m the only reason why I’m here in this situation. So how am I going to react to it? What am I going to do about it? How am I going to get out of it? And you just have to keep those wheels going and stay positive and know that.
40:25
If I got myself into it, I can get myself out. I’m not gonna become trapped and lost in it. I’m just gonna keep on lugging away and just keep on going. So for those people that are out there that are going through something difficult and they are their own worst critic, what advice would you give them to be able to get through it, endure it, grow from it? What advice would you give them? I would say always find positive. In every negative, there is
40:55
always a positive. And so just try to find that and grab on to that. Because in the moment, that’s all that matters. And just talk it through with yourself too, whether internally, or I talk to myself a lot all the time. I’m sure people think that I’m a nut job, but it’s just part of my process and what I do. And just tell yourself, it’s going to be okay. Tell yourself, I am strong. Tell yourself, I am a badass and I’m going to rise above this. I’m going to get through this.
41:25
It might take a little bit of self convincing because a lot of times it is hard to dig yourself out of a depression. It is hard to convince yourself that how is there a positive out of this? Like how? But there is. And just keep going at it. Keep playing it back in your head. Just keep focusing on the good stuff and you will get to the other side. You will get to that summit. Because you know, climbing a mountain.
41:54
going up is just half the battle and then going back down. But a lot of people who do climb are familiar with hiking. Going up is always the hardest part. And the summit is always the best part. And it’s smooth sailing back down the other side. So as long as you can get up to that top, you’re golden. Because you just go back down the way you came, or you go back down a different way. Either way, you have that accomplishment of knowing that you made it.
42:22
And so with anybody going through negativity or hardships, just, I promise you all, and coming from somebody who has gone through a lot of difficult things, don’t let that define you. Like things will get better. Things will shine on the other end. You just have to keep walking through that dark tunnel and you have to keep walking with your head held high, knowing that you are capable of making it to the other side.
42:48
And I think that’s very important. And I know it’s hard because, you know, and I have my moments too, and I think everybody does where you do get kind of stuck in that mud of depression. You know, you’re walking through and suddenly you step in a deep musket and you can’t go because you’re sinking. I mean that, that in life and that is the cycle of depression or what have you. But you have to have that strength to be like, I can sit here and continue to sing or I can just.
43:12
muscle up that strength just to pull myself out because I know that there’s dry land on the other side I just have to make one more step to get out and that’s so important for people to understand like you are capable of more than You think that you are? Everybody is everybody has the power to rise above adversity. Everybody has the power to choose positivity over negativity it’s just Telling yourself deep within that you can do it And it just takes takes practice it takes
43:42
You know motivation it takes confidence and there’s a lot of factors that go into getting you to that spot But you know surround yourself by others that you can talk to Invent to or lean on is very important too. And if you don’t have that you have a pet I mean I talk to my pets all the time too I’m having a bad day and I’ll grab my cat Steve and I’ll be like, alright Steve. Okay, so This is what happened this morning Flat tire like yep. I got a flat tire Steve
44:12
I got places to be today. And then he just looks at me with his, cause he’s one of that common unhappy cats who’s got like a swishy face, like grumpy cat. And he just looks at me with that, you know, derpy face. And just like, not understanding whatever it is that I’m going through. But it’s just moment that I look at him and I’m like, you don’t care. Why should I care about it? There it is. Why should I care about it? And then that’s, yeah, that’s what you have to do. Some, you know, things that happen in life a lot of times are out of your control too, like flat tire.
44:41
It happened. I picked up a nail the other day or who knows? And I’m just going to move on. I’ll fix it when I can. I’m not going to sit there and pout and cry and be like, I can’t make my appointment later today. No, I just messaged the person. Be like, well, we’re already at lunch. That’s all the interview Marcus. I can’t talk. I have a flat tire. I can’t talk. I have a flat tire. That’s just the pain in my existence right now. My life. Oh, yeah. Then there’s always a possibility.
45:10
And you can laugh about it. You can laugh about things too. Laughter is such a healing thing. And I’m like a little jokester and I’m such a dork and I will like dance around and do stupid dances just to make myself feel better because I know how ridiculous it looks. But I don’t care because if you can put a smile on your face or a smile on somebody else’s face and having a bad day, it will turn your day or their day around. And it’s such a beautiful thing. Just be happy. It’s contagious.
45:39
And there’s a lot in what you were saying, but there are two things that stand out. When people say, well, how can you see adversity as a gift? Understand that when you’re going through the adversity, you probably are not going to see that gift. You may know there’s something on the other side, but you have to make peace of the idea that’s like, first of all, I have to get through this. And if I don’t see the gift until I’m in a warm, safe environment, or if I’ve been through something traumatic, it may take days, weeks, months, years.
46:09
before I’m able to see that. But once I’m there and I have that perspective, I can look back and see it. And then if I’m able to keep that discipline while I’m going through a hardship, I can say, I don’t even have to know where there’s going to be a positive from this, but I know that there will be. And sometimes the greatest gift of adversity is not to put ourselves in the same fucking situation to where we have to go through this again, right? Yes. And that can be a hard thing too.
46:37
reflecting back on the relationship that I had with my daughter’s father. It was a vicious cycle. There were a lot of signs of things were going to get bad eventually. There were a lot of signs, but it was… I was young. I was 18 when I got in that relationship, walked out of it when I was 22. But I kept putting myself into that position. When things would get violent, things would get bad, things would turn missing. I mean, there’s a whole dirty laundry list of…
47:07
the bad from that. But it came to a moment after I had my daughter where, and I’ll say to this day, like my daughter is my savior. She’s the one that made me come out of that situation because I looked at what I was going through with him and the vicious cycle of the abuse, the theft, and the cheating, and the lying, and all of that. And then I have this small, tiny human that I’m responsible for now. And like, I don’t want to put her in that life. I don’t want to.
47:36
expose her to that, to remove myself, to get her out of that situation. And then that’s when I made the decision that I don’t want this life. I don’t want this life. I haven’t wanted that life for myself in a long time, but I just didn’t have the inner strength to be able to one, realize the problem. And even when I did realize the problem, I just got stuck in that routine that I’m just like, but now I have this other reason to go and to leave.
48:04
You know, that’s when I made him just even love. Yeah, this is not what I want anymore. And unfortunately it came with the price because that’s when he decided kind of the mentality, like, well, I can’t have you, nobody can. But I got through it and I survived it and I did get her out of that situation. And I broke that pattern. I stopped being in an environment that was just on repeat, was on a loop. And for a lot of people, especially with domestic issues.
48:32
That is a pattern. It’s a very common pattern that you’re stuck in it I had a friend in high school who was stuck in a bad relationship and I would keep telling her This is bad. This is bad. And I never understood why she didn’t want to listen to me Until I was in that position years later and I got it. So for anybody who is in a situation like that male or female There will come a point where there will be that reason. That’s like You know, I’m better than this
49:02
And that reason was my daughter. So you’ve got to break those patterns. You just have to keep moving forward. I think I went off on a tangent there, but actually. I think I. No, this is what we want. We want the long, I don’t want theses be soundbites, like I said, I want this to be a real conversation. And like you said, it’s interesting, right? The amount of adversity that we can endure for ourselves is limited in some ways in our mind. But the amount that we will give for someone else that we love.
49:32
Man, that mama bear that came out in you, that instinct that clicked in, that warrior. I’m sorry that you went through that, but I’m so glad that you’re the woman that I’m speaking to today. Thank you. It made you who you are. It made you so strong and resilient. And again, now you’re a testament to your daughter, to all everyone that saw you on the show. Again, it gives us some perspective. It gives us a different orientation. And in this life, we can either try to go to a hundred different paths.
50:02
Or we can take the same path but see it from a hundred different vantage points. And we can still gain a lot of wisdom from doing those things. And we can choose to change our perspective at any given time. So for people that feel like they’re stuck in a rut, it’s like maybe, but if you can change the perspective, sometimes that changes exactly what you see. It really does. And for me too, looking a lot of people are like, Oh, well, I’m unhappy with my life. This isn’t the way I had planned it to be. And for me by any means, yeah, I just.
50:30
I love my family, I love my daughter, but again, I was a tomboy. I, kids weird me out. They still weird me out sometimes. Like somebody will walk in a room with a newborn baby and everybody else. Like, I’m like, I never saw myself as being a parent, being a mother. Obviously life had other plans and I accepted that. Um, and it definitely shaped me to who I am. And some people are like, Oh, are you upset that you’re not?
51:00
you’re not a Disney animator, you don’t have the artistic career that you wanted, that you weren’t able to go off to Europe and be this awesome runway model. Like all of these missed opportunities people would keep bringing up. And I’m like, you know what? I can’t miss something that I didn’t experience. I can’t miss something that I knew nothing about. So maybe that was the plan 20 years ago, but certainly that’s not my life right now. And my life is pretty good. I’m-
51:26
pretty happy with the way things are. Yeah, there’s that mystery of what would have happened if things turned out differently, but I have a beautiful daughter. I have an amazing husband. You know, yeah, there’s, everybody’s gonna wish for something more. I want my cabin woods one day, and that hopefully will happen before I’m like 80 years old, but it’s a goal to get to. And you just have to accept the cards that you’re dealt with life.
51:53
And again, you can choose if you have a shitty hand, you can choose to be like, this sucks and throw the cards down and just give up. Or you can try to bluff with life and be like, all right, let’s see what I can do with this hand. Nobody else in the room, nobody else in the world knows what my hand is. So why am I gonna let onto? And cards kind of suck, but you know what? I’m just gonna roll with it and see what happens. And that’s so important.
52:22
I love that and it’s very easy for us to look at the opportunity cost that we miss, so to speak, like you said, all these things you missed out on. But let’s be honest, there’s just as much possibility of a bunch of negative bullshit that could happen for those experiences as well. And I’m not saying that as sour grapes, I’m just saying from a realistic standpoint, if all things are equal, you know, 33% of the time things are neutral, 33% of the times things are amazing, 33% of the times there’s negativity.
52:50
that allows us to be able to detach and say, I don’t really feel like I missed out on anything. There’s also a beautiful thing that informs who you are as an artist now, as a creative, as a model now. How many artists have we, whether it be a musician, a canvas painter, a sculptor, or an author, where they were in a situation that was a limitation for them initially, but that literally became the creative spark or the thing that defined their.
53:18
their style, their characteristic, how they do it, their signature. And when we can see those things and realize, Oh, you know, nobody else is doing this, whether it be a photographer that doesn’t understand lighting properly or ISO in their camera. But yet they get an incredible image that is sort of outside the realms of what the norm of photography is. My wife’s a photographer, so I’ve seen her literally do that. She just recently took the plunge, if you’ll forgive my pun.
53:47
of doing underwater photography for athletes. Oh wow. So seeing her excitement in this creative process because she’s been doing sports photography, she’s been doing photography for 20 years, sports photography for two or three, and that’s exploded because she has the mastery of this other subject. And then when she sees this athlete, she sees the stuff that other people don’t. And she has the mastery of lighting to understand how to really capture their essence, which is beautiful. She’s the one that did my book cover.
54:15
So she’s able to do those things. But then with the underwater photography, she’s like, okay, I’ve got $10,000 worth of equipment. And then I’ve ordered $5,000 more worth of it to put that equipment in what’s supposed to be waterproof stuff. And then I’m going to jump in with this stuff. So everything about her as a photographer is telling you don’t get that stuff wet. And then she doesn’t have a lot of like training underwater. So I’m like trying to explain to her, I was like, you’re gonna have to breathe, you’re gonna have to focus.
54:44
And within 15 minutes of her getting her feet wet, again, if you’ve all the swimming league comments, she literally was able to get into that process. And the photographer, the creative, the artist in her took over. And while there were certain things that were limiting, it gave her this tremendous canvas that she can now, now she has that as like this passion, this drive, this obsession. And now she can’t wait for the next one. And she has all these.
55:15
People already now they’re like, hey, you know, when is your next shoot? Can you do a shoot? Can we book you for that? And it’s because it’s something that she loves that process. And so I think that we need to understand that sometimes our, like our greatest breakthrough is right next to our biggest adversity. If we’re willing to see that adjacency and willing to see that there is always that yin to the yang and we don’t have to see it again in real time, but it’s, it’s there, we just have to be willing to keep moving forward.
55:43
especially when everybody else has kind of given up and compromised to live a life of quiet desperation, I guess. That’s wonderful. I’m so excited for her. And I don’t even know her, but just being in the photography world and knowing, yeah, and an artist in itself, when you dabble into and you really immerse yourself into a new tool, for lack of better words, of the profession and the creativity that you like to do, it’s very exciting when you…
56:12
You start it, it can be a little nerve wracking, a little, there’s that nervousness there and that like, what am I doing? Am I actually gonna do this? Oh my gosh, there’s all these variables and these little shoulder devils that are telling you stuff like, no, no, no, you’re gonna like ruin all this equipment or you’ve invested all this money and it’s gonna be for nothing, but then you do it and you’re like, that was so worth it. This and that excitement and then adrenaline starts going and you’re like, now I have this in my pocket and now I can do this.
56:41
and it opens up a whole new world of excitement. It feeds that creative soul. It’s so amazing. I love being a creative, so I can really feel for you and for her, because you’re an author and all of that. It’s fun to meet other individuals too, I get excited about that. The average person too, like, oh, well, I’m not an artist, I’m not a creative, but you don’t have to do that to get that excitement in life.
57:05
Yes. Whatever it is that brings you joy, whatever it is that makes you happy, you can still get that same sense of feeling. Especially when you learn a new skill or hike a new hike or whatever it is that you do. It’s everything. The Grammy award winner, Andre Tarraza Gonzalez, he’s an incredible musician. He does jazz, but that artistic process of what he lives for. So he’ll play with Lee McKinney, who’s in Born of Osiris, like heavy metal guitarist.
57:34
just chops for days, but they both have this humility and this mutual respect. And when they come together in a solo project, there’s this beautiful flavor that comes from both of their experiences with this vision and the excitement. So since we’re talking about art, tell us about what sort of your artistic process and what you create with what you’re working on. So I’ve kind of been all over the board with my artistic style. It took me a long time to find.
58:02
my style and what I love to do. I started off obviously doodling, drawing. I had mentioned earlier I’m obsessed with all things Disney. I wanted to be a Disney animator. That was like the dream. But when I went to school, things were transitioning into the computer animation. I’m old school. I love the hand drawn. And obviously, yeah, life had other plans and I didn’t get my degree. But I found when I was in art school, because the first year, they make you take everything just like any other.
58:31
college, whether it be fine arts or whatever it is, you have to have the basic gen ed. But for art school, it’s, you have to take an oil painting class, you have to take a figure drawing class, you have to take a three dimensional design class where I had to learn to use a table saw that I’ve never used in my entire life. That was a little horrifying, but I made it work. But I found a love for painting. And so for a while, I started really getting into oil painting and kind of toss aside the drawing and the
59:01
cartooning and all of that. And I think my husband jokes with me all the time. He’s like, I think you have artistic ADHD. He’s like, I think like you just, you start something, you get excited about it, and then you’re bored with it, and you’re onto the next thing. What else can you do? And so I started finding a love for practical effects or practical props. I loved Jim Henson, I loved Tim Burton, I loved LucasArts, all that and the puppetry.
59:28
I’d be so cool and I’ve always had this insane crazy imagination. When I went draw, I would draw these weird animals. It would be a turtle with deer antlers and wings. I would just make all of these weird things just kind of mishmash Frankenstein together. So when I started watching more of those in different films from those other artists, I’m like, this is really cool. I would love to do that.
59:52
And I kind of held myself back because I’m like, well, I’ve never picked up a block of clay. I’ve never sculpted. I don’t know if I can do this. And then I’m like, oh, a lot of these things have like fur and hair and I can’t sew a button on a shirt to save my life. How am I gonna be able to sew this intricate body? And a few years ago, after talking myself out, like just building it up to myself, I’ve been talking all morning with you about.
01:00:16
getting positive and pumping yourself up. And we’re only human. There are times when we’re kind of like, we try to talk ourselves out of doing stuff. And so for years, I’m just like, yeah, you can’t sew a button on a shirt. There’s no way you’re gonna make the stuff creature. And about three years ago, I went to Joanne, I bought a bunch of fabrics. I’m like, I’m gonna try it. And I fell in love with it. And so this whole lifetime of experimenting with different mediums and creative outlets.
01:00:45
I found a love for sculpting and creature creation. So what I do, I have a little page not to self promote, but I have a page on Instagram called Grim Creations. And that’s where I make my little, I call my little weirdos. So I sculpt and they’re all very nature oriented. They’re all like ones called a guardian and the story behind it is it’s like nature’s protector. It’s like a spirit. And so I do tie in my love for the outdoors.
01:01:14
with my art as well. Those ones I actually use a lot of natural pieces. I go out on my hikes and I find these cool sticks. I’m out there and I’m like shoving sticks in my pocket. People are probably wondering, what is this chick doing? What is she doing? Sticks, stones, the faces are made out of walnut shells. So I try to just tie it all together. The creative process for me, I mean, everybody gets creative slump with writing writer’s block. Same thing with like,
01:01:43
painters, even photography, I because I’m starting to get into nature photography, I always have my camera with me in the backcountry. And I was so irritated when I went on my trip, I brought my camera because I went to the Sierras for a few days by myself to try to beat the snow because we’re at the end of the hiking season here in the high Sierras. And I always like my camera with me. It’s a little Nikon. It weighs a couple pounds. A lot of people in the hiking community are super about ultra light.
01:02:11
stuff, then I have my backpack that weighs four pounds by itself, but I don’t care because it’s comfortable on me. A lot of people are like, why do you take the camera with you? It’s so heavy. It’s hanging in your pocket. It looks heavy. It looks uncomfortable. For me, that weight is worth it for me if I can capture a moment that nobody else can. But sometimes you don’t win. I was out there. I had this camera with me for three days. I shot a lot of…
01:02:38
I shot a lot of random birds. I mean, at least there was some kind of subject, but there wasn’t that glorifying path of shooting something else like the bear or what have you. But I’m always, when I go through the creative process, I don’t really have any kind of expectations. I learned that a long time ago because it’s gotta be a very natural and fluid process.
01:03:06
If you go in with something very, very specific, a lot of times, at least for me personally, you hit a brick wall and the end results aren’t there because you’re stuck, because you’re so tunnel visioned in that. And the beautiful thing about the creative process is it is a process and some of your best works, whether it be writing, painting, sculpting, photography, come from the unexpected, come from those moments where you’re just sitting there and you have that glimmer of a spark of,
01:03:35
of this perfect line in a book that you’re writing, or you’re sitting there so focused on trying to photograph a bear, but then you have this beautiful bobcat just walk into your shot. It’s all about just accepting the unknown and being completely open-minded, and thinking outside of the box too. It doesn’t always have to be free plan. It doesn’t have to be, I’m going to do this and this is what’s going to happen. That’s the great thing about being creative.
01:04:04
And I love that so much. It’s amazing the things that arrived to us from this avenue of approach that we never would have expected. And like you said, it’s this happenstance, this double of pence that it’s like, wow, I don’t know how that, there’s no way that that just happened. And yet you look in your frame or you look at what you wrote. And you’re familiar with Stephen Pressfield, The War of Art. I’ve had him on the show a couple of times. I’ve got to have.
01:04:33
dinner and lunch with him. I was at his Malibu writing retreat, his silent writing retreat a couple of months or a few months ago. And it was very much that idea of we do the process for the sake of the process. There’s no expectation. There’s no like, this is going to be a best selling whatever it is. And he says even him, Steven Pretzel, best selling author, fiction, nonfiction. Every time he starts a new book, he’s like, why the hell am I doing this? Nobody’s going to buy this. What if I do this and it releases to crickets?
01:05:03
So when he wakes up, resistance has been up before him. And he always says that the blank page is not neutral. It is openly hostile. But you have to understand the only way to overcome any sort of adversity or hostility or resistance is to just move forward. You don’t have to be emotionally positive to continue walking forward. You can be completely neutral and move forward. You don’t have to have this artificial positivity that this is going to be great.
01:05:31
You can make peace with the idea that this is going to suck and I’m still going to do it. You can make peace with the idea that adversity is going to be there, but I choose to see it as an indication that I’m on the right path. If the path before me is easy, it’s probably not the path I want to be on. I want to be on that. The path less traveled. I want to blaze my own trail. I want to understand. Like you say, maybe you get this inclination to go Northwest. There’s no path there. Great.
01:06:00
that there’ll be a path that I’m going to figure out. And bushwhacking sucks, and trying to get stuck in deep bushes is rough. However, when we get to the other side of it, just being able to, sometimes there’s the golden treasure over there, but sometimes it’s just the idea of understanding that I made peace with the idea that this was hard, and I still went through it. And now I had that skillset for whatever other path I want. Even when we’re lost on our path, that’s part of the path. So we’re gonna make peace with that.
01:06:30
it makes it easier to keep stepping. It really does. And my daughter’s, she’s young, she’s 21. So she’s already been having to navigate their hardships. I mean, a lot of, everybody does, but I told her, cause she recently went through some stuff. I said, you know what, if you learned something from it, then it was worth it. You have to take your experiences. And if you know that there was something to gain from it, even if it’s not what you wanted, then.
01:07:00
it wasn’t bad. And again, with life, whatever you go through, you know, it’s, it’s a way to build your character. It’s a way to develop yourself. It’s a way to make yourself stronger. It’s a way to educate yourself, whatever it may be. There is always something to gain, even in a positive, you know, things are great and things are awesome. Okay, you know, how do I handle that? How is it going to help shape me? You know, I don’t, I think some people were worried that the show
01:07:27
because I’ve been a model for 20 years. But I’ve never been really out there to as much of an audience as I’ve now been with Outlast. I think some people were worried and they were joking with me. Some friends, my husband was one of them too, said, don’t go get a big head now because you’ve been on the show. Don’t be building up your ego so much that you just don’t care about any of us anymore. I’m like, this whole experience is just very strange for me. It’s nice.
01:07:56
And it’s definitely confidence boosting, but it’s a learning curve for me too, because like, all right, well, how do I let this positive shine on me? Do I want it to be a huge beacon where I’m like, look at me, look at me. And then people are like, oh, look at her. She’s like, her ego is way out of her head. Or it’s like, you know what, I’m going to be humbled by it. Because
01:08:20
It was an incredible experience. I am very grateful and very blessed to be put on a higher platform now in front of more people and it’s not going to be a look at me thing. It’s going to be, how can I help you? I want to help others that maybe have been through stuff. I want to even just talk to people because I’ve had others that have allowed me to use them as an outlet and to help navigate through different things.
01:08:48
I want to use this platform to, again, just show the world that women are capable of being in the outdoors. Models are capable of being in the outdoors. And so, yeah, even positives. It’s a learning curve is what you’re going to do with it. And you had a very compelling why when you were on the show. Can you tell us what that was or what that is still?
01:09:17
There are many ways, but the biggest one is my mom. Well, when she was diagnosed a few years ago at stage five, I think it’s bumped up a little bit more, but she had stage five dementia. I had made her a promise years ago before she got sick, because we experienced this with my grandmother, my great uncle, her sister passed away early onset when she was in her early 60s a few years ago. So it runs rampant in the family. I’m trying not to let that…
01:09:47
get to me to worry me like is that going to happen to me in 30 years. I don’t want to dwell on that but I did make her promise after seeing her struggle with my grandmother because she wanted to keep her at home. She didn’t want to send her into a facility but my grandmother got to the point where she just wasn’t capable financially because she was a single parent even my parents divorced and I was really young. My father though was always involved. He had him.
01:10:15
big impact on my life and always stayed after my parents had their issues. But she was a single parent with my brother and I, and so financially it was really hard for her to keep my grandmother at home. So I just saw that emotion for her and that sadness of not being able to do that. So I told my mom, I’m like, if that happens to you, I want to do everything that I can. I want to have a plan, I want to be financially sound, I want to keep you with us. So the big why for me on the show was,
01:10:45
You know, money is a motivating factor for a lot of things in life. I mean, but for me, winning that would give me that financial cushion, peace of mind that yeah, okay. I will be able to keep her at home with me. We moved her in with us two years ago because she just kind of lived by herself anymore. It was a huge life altering decision. Um, because it is in a sense, she’s, she’s an adult child. Um, she needs not constant supervision, but
01:11:15
I got to make sure that she eats properly. I got to remind her to take a shower, brush your teeth. She’s very needy for attention. So I feel guilty sometimes. And I got to just go to the store. It’s like, well, where are you going? Why can’t I go with you? It’s like that. I have to hide the sweets in the house because if I leave a bag of chocolates out, they’re gone in like five minutes. But yeah, so being on Outlasts would have given me the ability to, to keep her home. And she’s not at the point now where I do have to hire outside help.
01:11:44
Thank goodness. She’s very manageable between myself. My daughter recently moved back home and my husband runs his own business, but he works from home most of the time. So there’s always somebody around. But there is that little thought in the back of my head, knowing how this disease works, knowing that there will come a day where I just can’t do it. And I need to have somebody else come in. And it’s very expensive.
01:12:14
Unfortunately, we don’t qualify for any kind of programs. My dad had a fantastic military pension. So we’re very blessed that she’s getting that every month, but. It cuts us off from any kind of other help and assistance because on paper, you’re fine, you’re good. You don’t need it. My rent’s 2,800 a month. But I’m just trying to make the best that I can with it.
01:12:43
A lot of people have reached out, asked me if I had a girlfriend me. I’m the type of person that doesn’t like to ask for help. I’ll get a cut on my finger and it’ll be bleeding profusely. And I’ll be like, didn’t get a flesh wound. I’m like, I’m the last person that will go to the doctor. Walk it off. I just, I’m just, yeah, you’re good. You’re fine. Put a bandaid on it and stuff it up. So I just felt really weird asking people for help. So, so Brie offered, she was on my season. She’s like,
01:13:13
you know what, I’ll set one up for you. So that way you don’t have to feel pressured and feel like you’re asking people. So she set up a GoFundMe for my mom. And it’s such a beautiful thing to have her offer to do that, but also to see the generosity from people out there. Just saying, you know, either they’ve been through it, or they’ve known somebody who’s gone through it, they understand that it is, you know,
01:13:39
more mentally challenging and exhausting than physically, at least at this stage, but it’s a tough thing to go through. It’s really hard to see a loved one who’s still kind of there, but not really. It’s like they’re living in their own little dream world. And sometimes you just have to accept it and go along with it. And other times, she’ll be telling a story and it’s completely left field. And I’m like,
01:14:08
I don’t remember that. I don’t remember doing any of that, but okay, you just have to roll with it. So I’m very, very grateful to have support from strangers around the world that are just, how can I help? What can I do? And it’s amazing. And I’m going to try not to stress about what happens down the road. Whatever happens, it will be. I will keep doing whatever I can to keep her at home. And then…
01:14:37
We’ll just go from there. You can’t stress on the unknown because it’s the unknown. You never know. So why worry about something you can’t change, predict, or do anything about. Yeah. If it’s, if it’s going to rain, we can’t control it. We just try to pack the right gear and prepare as best we can. That’s all we can do. And then that GoFundMe is that on your, your profiles? Are we able to get to them from there?
01:15:06
Yes, I have the GoFundMe link up in my bio and my Instagram profile. Um, I’m not sure if it’s on my Facebook profile. I know it’s been in my feed. I’ll have to go back in and shock, but I know for certain that it is on, on my Instagram profile is the first link under all of my little blibby blab about myself. And then it was Grimm Creations? Yes. Grimm Creations art is my art page.
01:15:34
I think a lot of people will want to check out both of those links. And I’ve loved this conversation. I could talk to you for hours. We spoke for a while already. I want to just end with one question. And it was the reason I reached out to you. I saw you absorbing some negativity from people online and it just pissed me off because we know the person that is volleying this venom at you as a person who is not.
01:16:03
doing anything or has not encountered anything or it’s very easy for us to judge somebody when they are not the ones that are in the ring. And so that was my initial reach out to you. I was like, man, these people, you know, so how are you able to learn to deal with that kind of negativity skillfully as you continue to maneuver these trails? It definitely was hard in the beginning.
01:16:30
I’d be lying if I said I didn’t let it get to me. I’m not used to so much attention. I’m not used to really much negative attention. And there was one instance where, well, the first instance of it actually was the day of the final episode dropped on September 11th. I hadn’t watched it yet. It was early in the morning. I just woke up. I was gonna wait until my family was home from work so we could all watch it together. I was just getting out of bed. I unplugged my phone. I had a notification from a message from somebody. And I’m just like,
01:17:00
Oh, okay. I opened it up and it’s just my heart instantly sank. This guy was telling me I sucked. I should never do a survival show ever again. I’m a dumbass. He just went on and on. Like a small paragraph of just tearing me down. And what really got to me though was his final sentence was, oh, and by the way, your mom has dementia. And that one got to me because it’s like you can rip me apart as much as you want.
01:17:29
but don’t bring that into, don’t bring my mom into that, especially knowing how hard that is for me to begin with. And so I literally got up, I was in tears, I was crying, I told my husband, I’m like, I gotta go hike a trail. And at the time this happened, we had a lot of local fires going on. So an area that I liked to go to was literally on fire. So I couldn’t go over there. And so I’m like, you know what, I’m gonna go to Malibu, I’m gonna hike some mountains over there. Because for me being outside, it’s very spiritual, it’s very healing.
01:17:58
There’s so many reasons why I like being out there, but I just knew in the moment that I just had to detach from it and go. I went up there and I had a good cry and it just was really getting to me. A few other negative comments started rolling into whether they were sending me direct messages or commenting publicly on my pages. It took me about two weeks probably to finally accept that.
01:18:26
there are just people out there that are going to try to put others down because maybe they have something going on in their lives and they have to project their negativity and their misery on somebody else because it makes them feel better for whatever reason. And so this first couple of weeks were very rough. I will say like, I wanted to just tower in a hole and like not move. But then I’m like, you know what, why am I letting this get to me? Even my husband was telling me that my daughter was telling me that my closest friends were like, you know, F those people.
01:18:56
They don’t know you. They don’t know the real you. They’re just sitting at home on their couch with nothing better to do than to rip you apart about an experience that they probably will never have. So they don’t have the right to say anything negative to you about it. So when they were coming in, I just started blocking them, deleting them. Blocking was a big one because I’m like, you know what, if you’re going to say something bad about me, if you’re going to be negative about me, you don’t have the privilege to look into my life. You don’t.
01:19:25
And that was empowering in itself because then I’m like, all right, bye. And I’m like, wash my hands with you, goodbye. And then just more of the positive comments started coming through, which helped a lot too. I’ve had people, men and women, young and old, comment on me that I’m such an inspiration. Thank you for not giving up. Thank you for showing the world that no matter how hard life gets, just keep putting one foot in front of the other. And you might not win the race.
01:19:55
but you will finish it with integrity and you’ll finish it with your hand held high knowing that you’ve got there. And it’s those comments that completely just erased all the negativity. It doesn’t matter. The negative comments don’t matter. I’m bummed that it took me so long to realize that because that was a hard journey to get through emotionally, but I’m happy that I was able to navigate through that. And I have my family, my friends.
01:20:23
people like yourself and others around the world that reminding me that those people don’t matter. They don’t matter. That’s just it. Yeah. It’s very easy for people to try to matter by trying to tear down somebody that does. They’re trying to get themselves meaning by trying to get under your skin. And like you said, you mentioned finishing the race with integrity, your team stayed with integrity, frankly on the other side of the equation that was not always demonstrated, but
01:20:52
That’s neither here nor there. For those of you that may not know what we’re talking about, watch the entire season and then you can kind of get a glimpse. But Tina, I just can’t thank you enough for who you are, what you’re demonstrating, that you’re living a life of actions and not words. You don’t just sing it, you bring it, and you’re inspiring and helping so many with your demonstration of this. So thank you for taking the time. Thank you for trusting me to be on.
01:21:18
I’m just this guy that reached out to you. Like I said, when I saw that negativity, I was like, man, I don’t know if she needs this. I don’t think she does. She’s smart and she’s strong, but I’m just gonna tell her, fuck those people. You keep doing you. So. Well, I appreciate it. It’s been a pleasure. And I did need that actually. You were one of the ones that started pulling me out of that dark hole that I was in. So thank you very much for your kind words and the invitation to be able to talk with you. I’ve enjoyed every minute of it.
01:21:48
True. I have two. The time’s flown and if you need anything at all, don’t ever hesitate to reach out. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to this episode of Acta Non Verba.
