In this episode Shell Armogida, a woman of faith, farmer, survivalist, endurance athlete, and activist, talks about her practical and spiritual approaches to adversity, particularly from her experiences on ‘Naked and Afraid.’ The discussion delves into her faith, the challenges of staying positive in extreme conditions, mental discipline, and spiritual resilience. Shell also shares personal stories about surviving a tumultuous divorce, battling depression, and finding strength through faith. Additionally, she discusses her role as a stepmother, her regenerative farming work in Central Florida, and future survival challenges. The episode highlights the importance of mental and spiritual strength in navigating and leading through life’s toughest trials.
Episode Highlights:
17:10 Endurance and Mental Discipline
42:45 The Importance of Spiritual Health
43:40 Survival Strategies: Marathon vs. Sprint
44:44 Pacing Yourself in Survival Situations
48:39 Team Dynamics and Leadership in Survival
01:10:18 Reintegration After Survival Challenges
Shell Armogida is a Florida-based farmer and former project manager with a background in the aviation and aerospace industry, previously working at Boeing and Infinity Systems Engineering. She is also a real estate broker and a veteran of the U.S. Air Force. In 2024, she gained attention for her appearance on Naked and Afraid, where she demonstrated her survival skills alongside Cole Wilks in South Africa. Married to Craig Armogida since 2021, the couple resides on a farm in Florida. Shell is originally from Puerto Rico.
You can learn more here: instagram.com/shell_sonrisa
Episode Transcript:
00:02
Dr. Nonverba is a show that’s raw and real, featuring hard-hitting interviews with people that live by the ethos of actions, not words. Marcus Aurelius Anderson is a TEDx speaker, best-selling author, veteran, and leadership and mindset coach.
00:17
With this show, you get to join Marcus as he goes inside the minds and experiences of the world’s most successful warriors, leaders, entrepreneurs, and experts. With each episode, you’re going to get the philosophies, concepts, tactics, and strategies these leaders use to turn adversity into victory. Live an extraordinary life based on actions, not words. Now here’s your host, Marcus Aurelius Anderson.
00:44
Acta Non Verba is a Latin phrase that means actions, not words. If you want to know what somebody truly believes, don’t listen to their words. Instead, observe their actions. I’m Marcus Aurelius Anderson. And my guest today truly embodies that phrase. Shell Armogida is a woman of faith, a farmer, a survivalist and forager, an endurance athlete, an air force veteran, and a proud wife and bonus mom. She believes in the power of the spirit within.
01:11
And our creator gives us the ability to harness the connections that allow us to thrive in the most brutal of situations. Now these are not empty words. If you’ve seen her on one of the seasons, her 21 day experience on Naked and Afraid, and then her extended stay, her XL version on 40 days of Naked and Afraid, you can understand that she truly believes this. Epictetus says, don’t tell me your philosophy embodied. Bruce Lee says, knowing it’s not enough, we must apply. Knowing it’s not enough, we must do.
01:40
And that’s why when I reached out to her, I was like, I’ve got to have a conversation with Shell. So thank you so much for taking the time. You’re literally right out of the farm and you picked up the phone and you’re having a conversation with us. So thank you for taking the time and welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me, Marcus. I am so honored to be here and I’m stoked to talk to you. Yeah, as always, I should have hit record from the beginning because there were some goals there. But I know that we’re going to come to that place for sure. And there were a lot of questions that came in.
02:07
right before this too, so if we have time, I wanna try to get in some of the people that were asking a lot of questions. Oh yeah, we’ll have time, we’ll make the time. I love that. So one of the big things is, and I told you this when I kinda reached out to you, that ability to act from belief, from faith, from what that looks like. And it’s very easy to say it when there’s no adversity in our face. But the way that we conduct ourselves in the face of adversity is an indication of how we do everything else.
02:36
Absolutely, and we see people that say one thing but there’s incongruency in their lives but when I saw you there with Cole you guys had gone weeks without food and he had really wrapped his identity around this idea being a hunter and a provider and you sense that immediately and you could feel that immediately and Your ability to just blend and feel that gap as necessary knowing to support him
03:05
who believe in him, to actually give him that pragmatic empathy and love as you guys are suffering together. I’ve never seen that before. I’ve heard people talk about it. But when your blood sugar is low, when you’re sleep-dep and you’re miserable, everybody, you get to see like the worst side of people. But I never saw that in you. And that was the very thing that allowed him to go out and hunt again, to find that Elan again. For that thing to be intact when you guys find it the next day.
03:35
Yeah. Like if you’ve been hunting or surviving at all, that’s a miracle. So yeah, totally a miracle. Yeah, no, there were so many miracles. Marcus, like I can’t even we could spend hours and we don’t have that. But just to cover the eland situation, because I have gotten questions about that a lot. And essentially, what had happened is when cool shot the England, it was not unfortunately a clean kill.
04:04
So yeah, like anyone with hunting experience knows that it does take time for these large animals to die, especially when the kill is not clean. So it had actually taken quite a few hours for the eland to die. So obviously like it didn’t like he didn’t hit it and the thing died, right? Like it went it ran off and actually ran off with its entire herd and was trying to trail its herd the whole time, which was how we were able to track it. But it ended up.
04:30
We’re estimating it probably died an hour or two before we found it, right? So it was within very close Timing to when the Eland had passed and that is why it was still intact because there was like some weird conspiracy I don’t want to go on to that about like oh the Eland, you know, like that should have never lasted overnight Well, it didn’t last overnight. It was still alive like it died, you know, like
04:56
how we did, you know, we’re able to find it and then of course secure as much protein as we could possibly handle. And so that’s kind of how that went down. But yeah, no, I totally believe it was, it was a miracle and it was, it was meant for us and she was beautiful and a huge gift. And we were just as grateful as a person could be for that food. When I went in safari in South Africa, it was the same thing where you would get this like huge like impala or like bush book or hook book. And we were making sure that we got the shot in before, you know, five.
05:25
because by the time the sun goes down, you’re not the top of the food chain. Oh yeah, no. Now hyena, now lion, now everything, and there’s blood in the air. So you have to be able to get to that thing as quickly as possible, as efficiently as possible. And so there’s a lot of moving parts to that. Yeah, and we wanted to actually night, night track.
05:44
It was something we were willing to do, unfortunately, due to like massive safety concerns. Of course, yeah. And the fact that we like weren’t allowed to, you know, to do that. We just could not be out in the bush at night there. We unfortunately weren’t allowed to. So that was it’s, it’s, it’s rough because we really didn’t get any sleep those nights just worrying, especially Cole because he just was like a constant ball of worry, you know. And so it’s hard out there. So that’s the other part.
06:15
that part of you that was able to give that empathy, even in that like raw environment, is that something that you’ve always had? Is that something that you’ve cultivated? Is that from your spiritual relationship with God, where did that come from? Yeah, all of those things, I would say. I would say it is a portion of my nature, what I would refer to as my God-given nature. I think it’s a portion of something I have cultivated. I have desperately
06:41
cultivated this positivity in my life. And it’s something that I’ve worked on for many, many years. Like I know people will talk about like, quote unquote, positive mental attitude. So that’s something that like, for me, I totally am doing my best at all times to like stay in a positive attitude because for me, I’m a huge…
07:08
This might come as a shock to you, but people who know me and who have known me in the past, I am a huge pessimist, okay? I’m naturally a pessimist every single day of my life, man. And it’s rough and I know people, yeah, they look at me like that. They’re like, there’s no way you’re a pessimist. 100% I am. And my immediate instinct as a person is to go to negative, it is. And so I have had to just over the years, desperately and intentionally go.
07:37
You cannot be like that in life. You know what I mean? It’s negativity. It breeds negativity. You keep going down a negative track mentally. You spread negativity to those around you. You put the negativity out in the world. That’s what it is. It truly is. And I think anybody who’s a pessimist can maybe identify, hopefully self-identify, that in themselves of like, man, yeah, when you start getting negative and you start feeling negative and you…
08:03
cling on to your own natural even inclinations of wanting to be negative, that that road is just it leads to death and destruction really. It truly it does. The mind of the soul of your environment. And I hate that. And I started identifying that in myself. This was maybe God, I don’t know, maybe seven, eight, nine years ago, I would say somewhere in that range. And I was like, I hate that like,
08:30
my own mindset that it’s natural to me maybe, drives me in this negative space. Like how do I get out of that, right? And so I started going, you know what? I have to have an intention, an intention to be positive. And as soon as my mind naturally, to this day it still does do, goes negative, I have to be like, smack! You know, like stop that.
08:59
We are not thinking negatively. We’re not being negative. We’re not putting the negativity out there. We’re not harboring negativity. Somebody who brings me negativity, I’ll reject it. And I’ll tell them to their face, I reject that negativity. I do. I said that all the time. I said to my mom the other day, she’s being negative. I love her. But I was like, we need to clear up the negativity in the air because I’m feeling it. It’s bringing me down. It’s bringing my dad down. We’re all coming down. Let’s not do that.
09:24
And so we kind of like stopped and it went away finally, you know, and it’s good. It’s a very real thing. And because I am a very intimately spiritual person, I can feel, I can like feel it in a room physically, you know. And so it is one of those things where you truly can take a hold of your thoughts, take them captive in the direction of your mindset, and you can absolutely practice, put it into
09:54
and harness that spirit of positivity, even if it’s not natural to yourself at all, like me, you know, and because I have put that in practice and because I have worked so hard and it does show in my life, you know, it does for my friends and my family, they see it, everybody around me sees it. I’ve even been told that I like radiate.
10:18
positivity, which I totally appreciate because I try. I try to be that way. And it is, I think, certainly at this point in my life, a part of who I am because I’m able to redirect and refocus into the positivity. And once you’re able to kind of push your mind in that spot.
10:42
you can really live in that space, you know, and you can share that with others around you. You can share that with your environment, you know, you can share that with your kids, your pets, your friends, you know, and just it’s infectious. And you can even harness it and utilize that sort of like a mentality and a sort of way of life, right? A lifestyle is what it becomes. And even in the depths of
11:10
pain and suffering and angst and just naked in the jungles, you know what I mean? With three tools that you have to utilize, right? That is something that just it comes out. You know, there was a lot of negativity coming from Cole because he’s a bit of a pessimist himself sometimes. And so I would have to take that negativity and redirect it constantly. And that is what I did out there. It was wonderful for both of us. Cole, you know, sincerely
11:38
appreciated it. And that is something that really made like our teamwork and our relationship just worked so well is because he could rely on me to be like, Okay, cool. Let’s calm down. Let’s like readdress. Why are we here? You know, what are we doing? What are our goals? And you know, because I am a person of faith, you know, I would bring it back to prayer, some meditation, you know, really knowing that like, I felt like God was out there with us.
12:06
helping us, assisting us, strengthening our souls, to be able to endure the harshest environments you can even think of. And that was just incredibly successful and real. That’s so beautiful. It’s, again, it’s your living your philosophy, your embodying it with your actions. Truly somebody should be able to look at us in the way we conduct ourselves and say, oh, you are a person of faith, or, oh, you are a person of ethos, at least. 100%.
12:35
It’s very easy to be brittle in the face of adversity, but yet, and I love your idea about talking about pessimism. And if I could give a perspective, a lot of people think that when they’re pessimistic or they’re negative, that they just need to have this artificially positive toxic positivity, which I think you would agree is not the way to do it. If nothing else, if nothing, if nothing else, just say, listen, let’s get back to neutral.
13:04
Let’s get back to what are the facts right now? Are the facts are we’re hungry, the facts are we’re cold, and the facts are we may have missed out on that opportunity. So does that mean that we just give up and we just sit here and have a pity party? Or do we come back, regroup, take a breath, take a moment, and say, okay, so what is the next option? Where do we move? Oh yeah, absolutely. No, I totally, I was gonna go off that and just say Marcus that like the mindset of staying negative and just like.
13:33
truly having a pity party in these situations, right? And being in just like bitching and moaning, right? And like complaining. And you see a lot of that in these situations because people do go there, they get negative and they stay in it and they dwell in it, right? And they just make a tent, they set a tent up in that negativity, right? And then you see constant complaining and just misery, and it’s like, don’t get me wrong, Cole and I, we were truly miserable. It was…
14:02
absolutely miserable. There’s just no way to get around it. That’s just what it was. You know, however, pitching a tent in it, bitching and moaning complaining all these things, dude, where does that even get you? It doesn’t get you anywhere good, especially in a survival situation where it is really just Cole and I out there. And if we’re not doing, we’re not working, we’re not serving each other, we’re not being for the team, we’re not trying to at least.
14:28
work our minds into more of a positive or even like you said neutral even situation, then what are we doing? You know, it’s very destructive. And it’s not a good place to be. And that’s certainly not a place I would ever recommend anyone in these situations to going and you truly can with like a mental, there’s mental breaks you can do where you can stop, stop your direction of negativity.
14:55
and turn it towards, okay, I’m going to start looking at the good here because there’s always good even when you’re naked and freezing and you’re not sleeping, you’re not eating, you’re not hydrated. Everything is against you. The bugs are against you. You’re getting stung by scorpions on scorpion alley, which is where I slept. You know what I mean? They’re waking you up with their stings and then you have, you know, you have, you know, nerve.
15:20
pains for the next seven days, you know, I could have focused on those things, right? I could have complained, oh my goodness, Cole and I, we could have just constantly complained the whole time. Absolutely. And you know what? I think people would have said that’s justified because of the situation. It’s miserable. But we didn’t, right? You know, and, and we looked at the positive and we were like, you know what, we have fire.
15:45
Thank God I have fire, truly. In my prayers, I’m like, thank you, Lord, that we have this fire, because that is one thing I can focus on. This is good. I can boil water, which means I can attempt to rehydrate my body, which you spend 21 days attempting to rehydrate your body, by the way, and your partner’s body. And on top of that, we can cook food, whatever food we get, which I had.
16:10
did truly have and still do have the utmost confidence of Colen is hunting skills. I didn’t know the man, I’d never met him, but I do feel like you do get certain feelings from people and you can kind of almost get an intuition about someone. And when I met him, I knew I was like, I don’t think that this person is overestimating their hunting skills. I think that they do have skill and I think that they will have some kind of success out here.
16:40
here and I was 100% right and it didn’t surprise me. You know what I mean? Like it was something that I just did have confidence in and I was in a position where I said to myself, I’m gonna do what I need to do in order for me and my teammate to be successful and to finish the 21 days period. That’s the end of the story and that’s exactly what I did. And that’s why it’s so impressive to me. And you talk about your faith.
17:07
and it’s this very personal relationship that you have. Can you expand on that a little bit and tell us kind of what that is because I believe that many people listening probably have a similar experience or a similar faith, so to speak, but they don’t maybe know where it would fit in in some of these capacities. Absolutely, yeah, of course. So I’m a follower of Christ. I am very intimately.
17:33
connected with who I consider to be the creator of the universe and it’s something that I live day-to-day intentionally and I have a continual relationship and I absolutely work every single day and this is kind of something we discussed earlier that will really happen.
17:59
When I had investigated Acta Non Verba, you know, Actions Not Words, and your podcast and kind of like what you cover and stuff, I was sitting there and I was going, this is totally perfect. Because something that I work to do in my day to day life, which I’m not perfect at, but I do work towards, of course. And I think is is mainly evident. I think most people who are.
18:25
and have experience with can say that I work towards actually putting into practice and being and embodying the person that I try and say to be, as far as my faith goes. And it’s something that is truly special and really is like the…
18:48
the leader, I would say, of my life. It guides me. It’s my true north star, my compass. I work every single day. We have a thing that’s treat others the way you want to be treated. Very basic. I kind of almost relate that to act and non-verbal actions, not words.
19:13
Hello, if you’re gonna say that you believe certain things, and if you’re gonna say that this is your ethos or your religion or your spirituality, you really should be able to see the evidence of that in somebody’s life and the way they live, whatever that might be. And so that is truly something that I strive to do and something that means a lot to me. And…
19:38
You know, in one of the things that I don’t think, Marcus, I haven’t discussed this in a podcast. This is a good one. Something that when I first went out, actually for Africa, my first challenge with coal, the one we’ve been discussing, one of the driving behind it, aside from the fact that I do have a lot of survival skills, and this is like totally my niche, I’m very comfortable out in the wilderness, was that I do know and I believe and I know you’re going to love this.
20:08
that you can really see who a person truly is at their core and at their center through extreme adversity and through really freaking tough hard times. That’s when a person’s true character and what they really believe, not just what they say they believe, but what they really believe comes out. And I know that and I knew that. And I was like, you know what? I have lived a life.
20:36
you know, not a full life. You know, I’ve had my times, but recently as an adult, I’ve lived my life in a certain way where I feel I believe certain things, right? And I feel like I am a certain person and I think I’m pretty self-aware and other things like that. But you know what? You get put into these kinds of situations, the ones that I’m attempting to be in, and I’m gonna find out.
21:03
So I’m willing, like I’m wanting to and I’m willing and I am curious to see what is deep down inside. What’s in the depths, the kind of spiderweb corners that you don’t wanna like visit of yourself, you know, and of your soul even, right? Like what’s in there and what does it look like and is it what you think it looks like?
21:26
and what are we going to discover there? You know, and so at the beginning of Africa, my journey to Africa, you could actually see, they put a little snippet in there for me of like where I was saying, I’m doing this as like a spiritual journey, you know? And so, yeah, and so that was in there. But I had gotten into like a bunch of different details and stuff, we did hours of interviews and stuff like that. And some of that didn’t quite get broadcasted, but that’s essentially what it was for me is I was like, you know what?
21:56
I’m here for survival 100% because that’s what I do, right? But for me, it is a spiritual journey. It’s not about the TV. As a matter of fact, if we could take the TV out of it, I would have loved that. Unfortunately, you can’t. So that’s what it’s about. And so you have to deal with that as well. But for me, it was that spiritual journey and really digging down deep and you have to, you have to, you don’t have a choice. And so I got to do that. And it was, it was just an absolutely remarkable experience. You were a testament to all those things you talk about.
22:26
Did you know my story? Did you have you see my TEDx or my book or anything? Yes, I saw your TEDx. And I actually today because I was like, you know what? I haven’t read his book and he might bring his book up. But today I went to go look in audible and it’s on audible. And I actually, because I do work on the farm, like every single day I’m out there. And so I can listen to things and it’s actually easier for me. Yeah. And so I’m actually going to just like download it on there and listen to it. I want to let you know. No, no, no. And I wasn’t trying to put you on the spot.
22:55
Yeah. Everything you’re describing, my injury, what happened to me, again, having all that stuff stripped away, all this superfluous bullshit that we think we believe or the things we’re doing for other people. Yes. Adversity doesn’t show you who you are. It just strips away all that you’re not. And then this raw, real version of you is, that’s why I felt that compelled to reach out to you when I saw you. It’s like not once during the 21 day or the 40 day, which we’ll get into, but…
23:25
I never saw footage of you anywhere complaining. Never, never. Yeah, for the 21 day, that’s 100% accurate. The 40 day, there was a little bit of a complaining. I have to let you know. Yes, I did complain some. I’m gonna be full confession. Wow. Yeah, and I’m gonna tell you that the two experiences were as different as you can possibly imagine. Yeah.
23:54
So with the Kamin killers, there were some components that made it difficult for you. So 21 days in Africa, which Africa, I feel because I was, you know, you’re totally naked this whole time. Okay. And you’re just like fully connected to your environment. And that’s something I can get a little like hippie dippy, you know, like that’s something that I love, you know, because
24:23
For one, I don’t mind being naked actually, would be nice if we could be in that state more often if I were to be honest, but I know you can’t live like that, unfortunately, kind of sucks. But I just thought it was a beautiful thing and I loved just being like, I’m me, this is how I was created, I’m out living in this beautiful environment. Africa is just so majestic, it really is. And I have this amazing connection with what I would call the heart of Africa. I could just…
24:52
feel Africa. I could feel it around me. I could feel it moving through me, you know? And I think it’s because you’re in just this very vulnerable, raw, primal almost, if you want to call it that state, while you’re out there and you’re living this very pure lifestyle, this very basic way, and you’ve had all the things totally removed, like fully, obviously, right? And so it was such just a…
25:20
Africa in and of itself for me on so many different levels was a very spiritual journey. It was very, like I felt incredibly close and connected to my creator and to like creation, you know, and that’s something that I just thoroughly loved and I enjoyed. And I had an incredibly just positive impact on me. It came through me, you know, and it was very
25:44
very just good, honestly, you know, aside from all the suffering that did occur, because it did, unfortunately. But with, excuse me, with Columbia, 40 days is historically been referred to as like a time of testing and trial. And I can tell you it’s exactly that. Because the 21 days, it’s three weeks, you know, and so three weeks, I’m going to just
26:14
Davis is like a broad blue vacant statement and I don’t really like like statements, but but anybody can survive three weeks. Okay. That’s three weeks is three weeks. It’s you can you need water, but you could go foodless for three weeks. You can’t start for three weeks. And that has happened. We have had episodes actually even I think two seasons ago, season 16, I want to say or 15.
26:39
Um, there was a guy who literally was like, yeah, I’m going totally foodless. I’m not going to have a bite to eat. And he didn’t. And he’s, he made it 21 days, you know, and he was fine. I mean, it’s not good for your body, right? It’s fasting for three weeks, but three weeks is three weeks. Okay. 40 days, totally different. There is no starving really for 40 days. Like, you know what I mean? Like water and a lot of other things that like shelter, you know, all those things do become a lot more important.
27:08
Um, and so, you know, your skills become a lot more relevant out there. Columbia in and of itself is such a harsh, harsh environment. Cause we were just north of the Amazon jungle, um, and this place that is referred to as like the badlands, um, it’s hill country, but you’ve got like little pockets of jungle and stuff. And.
27:33
getting eaten alive. You know, I’ve had people message me, Oh, you guys really only got eaten alive once. And it’s like, girl, we got eaten alive every single evening. And if I understand it wasn’t shown like that, but you have to understand this is TV.
27:49
Okay, they edit it heavily. There’s things they show, there’s people they show more than others. We haven’t noticed that. Like it does happen and that’s very, sometimes it can get kind of like political, like who do they wanna show, who don’t they wanna show, those sorts of things and nobody has any control. I have no control over what they do and don’t show. Doesn’t mean somebody’s not working. Just cause you’re watching Mallory out fishing doesn’t mean that I was doing nothing. Like there were things I was doing, you know? And so there’s all those different
28:19
aspects of the TV, which do you kind of get fed up with those sorts of things when you’re on this end of it, you know? It can be frustrating, but we did get eaten alive every single night. And that, the absolute sheer torture of being bitten constantly by thousands of not just mosquitoes, but we had biting flies because we were in a swamp. So the biting flies, when they bite you…
28:49
you physically cannot sleep through their bites because they’re so painful. So at nighttime in Columbia, we’d have, I think it was like maybe 10 hours of darkness and it’s pitch dark, so there isn’t nothing you can do in the darkness. And yes, we did make torches by the way. The torches may be a lume a foot or two out in front of you, which is almost useless because that doesn’t do anything. Okay, it’s not like a flashlight, unfortunately.
29:15
So even with torches, no, like you’re not, you cannot do things at night. And so you’ve got like the 10 or so hours of darkness where you do pretty much have to sit there and suffer in what I would say an extremely torturous environment that is totally tormenting to your entire body.
29:38
And it also torments your mind and your spirit at the same time, because it just totally infiltrates within your body. And it’s it’s just an experience that I would never wish on, frankly, like my worst enemies, because it’s so torturously bad that it drives you like mad. So, yeah, that’s just one aspect of it. Yeah. Yeah, I remember seeing you.
30:07
You have your knees up to you and you’re wrapping your arms around yourself. And again, it’s freezing, but you’re still getting bitten by all these. Yes. Wet and you’re miserable. So when you’re in that place, this is one of the questions I’ve been asked by multiple viewers in different capacities in that place. And you know that if all you have to do is tap this button and you can go home. What are you doing? What is your internal narrative? What are you telling yourself?
30:36
as you were enduring the biggest adversity physically that you’ve ever endured in your life? What are you doing to keep going? So a lot of the things that I would tell myself is that I signed up for this.
30:49
And then I’d be like, I’m the biggest idiot who’s ever existed. I’m signing up for this. And I can tell you that’s not just my narrative. That’s a lot. That’s a lot of the narrative out there. Like, and trust me, you, you talk to your partners and they’re as miserable as you are, you know, and yeah, it’s the internal narrative. It varies. I’m going to be honest because there are points. Every single person out there. Okay. Including myself. There are.
31:18
points where your mind just cracks. It does. You know, and you’re like, you were like, I am actually I think insane right now. You know, like, the insanity has struck me because you’re just because the nights are the worst. Everybody has said that it’s 100% the truth. Don’t let anybody tell you anything different. It’s just the nights are the worst. Okay. And it’s because of the way what I just described. You know what I mean?
31:48
Um, Africa was not like that. It was not as buggy. It was not as torturous. It was not, I’m not gonna say not as cold. The coldness in Africa was different, but. The constant attacking of your flesh is. You just can’t describe it. You know, so it does, it breaks you in a certain way. And the thing about it is, is you almost have to go to the lake. This is going to sound really stupid.
32:18
You almost have to go to like, but did you die? Because truly, am I dead? No, I’m still alive somehow. Do I wanna be alive right now? That’s a whole other, you know. I’m like, nope, it would be, I think death would be preferable to the actual like torture of it, you know. And you really, you sit there and in your mind you go, you do have to list through all of the positives. I have shelter, I have fire, I have a partner.
32:47
who I love and care for. I’m here for a reason. I’m here for a purpose. And I was there for a reason and I was there for a purpose. Deep down in my halfway shattered at that point soul, I knew that God was there with me. And for me, I had a very different spiritual experience in Africa, excuse me, in Columbia than I did in Africa. Because in Columbia, I personally
33:17
felt on an emotional and spiritual side that God was a lot more distant from me. And I truly do believe that because this 40-day time of trial and testing was more of a trial and testing for me, as opposed to this beautiful, wholesome spiritual walk side by side with my Creator, as opposed to Him being like, okay, well, here you are. Good luck.
33:46
You know what I mean? And I don’t mean that on like a mean. I don’t mean it to be like, I don’t think it was like negative. It was more, okay, you’re gonna go through the time, the trials and testing. And there are times as a person of faith where you do feel, where is God? Why isn’t he here? I don’t feel him. I don’t feel that presence. I don’t feel real reassured. I don’t feel good. I mean, there was nothing good about it.
34:16
There wasn’t. Where is God? And the reality is God is still there. I just think that God was distant from me. And so it was just so much spiritually for me, more different and more of a struggle, because I think that there are times for whatever reason that God is close to us and God is distant to us. And that was a really wonderful but painful kind of a lesson to learn for me.
34:46
Because I know that that’s for a reason and it’s just a matter of either figuring out what the reason is or for me It’s more just trusting God that like you’re distant to me for a reason and I just need to know that that you’re still there Even though I don’t feel it right now That’s what adds that testament to your faith as well, correct? 100%
35:09
because there would be a lot of people who’d be like, screw this, God’s totally not here and he’s not helping me and he’s not good and all these things. And it’s like, I could have easily gone there, you know? And I was probably close at times, but I did not go there and I would not continue down that path because.
35:28
For me, it was much harder because of the situation and because of the circumstances in Columbia. It was much harder for me to redirect my pessimism and even some of the negativity that I would sometimes allow to sit in it because you’re just so miserable that you’re like, I’m just gonna sit in it. I hate life. I hate everyone. I hate that I’m here. I hate that I have a purpose. I hate that I’ve been placed here for a purpose because I do believe I was placed there for a purpose.
35:57
I hate that I have to be here and I hate that I’m too stubborn to tap out. You know what I mean? And then you’re just you’re just upset in the moment. I’m human. Right. Like, come on. So like you’re upset in the moment. But then you do you do kind of like get past that and you go, OK, this is stupid. This is ridiculous. I hate living my life like this. I’m not going to keep going down this way, this path. And you have your mental.
36:21
disciplines that you have trained, you know, for your whole life and you can redirect and go, okay, we’re going to get up, we’re going to go do something useful. I’m going to go for some fruits and berries for my partner because she just spent three hours out fishing and now she’s dehydrated and needs something to eat. You know, I love all that. And this comes back to that. Again, we were talking about that mental discipline that you leverage and you deploy as an endurance
36:50
Yes, all of these challenges, the 21 day, even though it was three weeks, I’m trying to I’m saying three weeks like it’s a short amount of time. I mean, compared to 40 days, it is honestly, I have to tell you, 40 days was like a freaking lifetime. 21 days was like, it felt like a couple months, I’m going to say like when you’re out there, it feels because one day feels like a couple days. And so yes, endurance. So I do very much so 100% approach all of these challenges, these survival challenges as
37:20
an endurance event, especially the 40 days. Cause I knew going into 40 days, I was like, how much do you want to bet that the 40 days isn’t more tough than just twice 21 days, right? I was like, I know it’s two times the amount, but I know it’s going to be even tougher than that because it is a significant amount of time out in the wild, naked. So.
37:45
I was preparing myself mentally like I do for my endurance races. Nowadays, I mostly just stick with triathlon, so swim, run, bike. You know, nothing big. Just swimming, just biking for insane distances. Nothing big, guys. Something easy. Yeah. Yeah, I try to stick with Olympic distance. I’ve done a few sprints lately, but I need to get back to the Olympic distances. There are like half Ironman’s, Ironman’s, and the other half.
38:11
and stuff like that. I had trained up for a half Ironman. It was canceled the week before due to COVID. So I was pretty pissed off. But yeah, it’s a lot of training and it’s a lot of discipline and it’s a lot of mental discipline for sure because our bodies are incredibly capable and they’re capable. I think a lot of people don’t understand. I’m certain you do understand, but I feel like a lot of people nowadays don’t understand just how capable our bodies
38:40
are. And it’s really our mind that gets in the way. And most endurance athletes can be like, preach, you know what I mean? Like, I totally am right there with her. You know, our minds get in the way. It’s not physical limitations. It’s not outright muscle failure, which can happen. I have experienced muscle failure, but usually it’s not that stuff. It’s that our minds are like, no, I can’t, no, I can’t. And then you
39:09
push past that and it’s like, well, duh, I literally was just.
39:12
100% certain I couldn’t keep going. And I did keep going for how many miles and what did I do? And I beat a personal record and I did all these things. Wow, like that’s ridiculous. My mind is obviously super freaking weak. Let’s like fix that, you know? Like, and let’s not let it tell me I can’t do that. That’s ridiculous. Obviously I can. I just proved it time and time and time again that I can. And it’s not just me. I’m not like some superhuman.
39:39
fitness, whatever, you know, like I’m really not, I’m not impressive at all. Like I’m just a person, really, truly, seriously. And so like if somebody who’s just a person can do all these things, like the capability that all of these people listening have within them, it’s so there. It’s just a matter of like, you gotta push through it. You have to, and you can, you know what I mean?
40:04
So for me, I do leverage a lot of the mental discipline that I have learned and developed over the years as an endurance athlete to just push through. And that’s sometimes all you can really do in these environments, especially when you’re feeling totally drained, exhausted, your past exhausted. If there’s a word worse than exhausted, that’s what you are out there. Okay, you know, like you have…
40:28
No energy, zero energy. Yes, somehow you’re still functioning on zero energy, right? And literally most nights zero sleep. So then you have to take naps during the day. And so, yeah, it’s just, it’s very, very, it’s like extreme adversity out there, you know? And you’re still going, you’re going on 0%. So what is that, right? Like, what is that? Exactly. That’s your spirit, right? 100%.
40:58
Spirit has to push right on through that. And that’s why I think it’s such like an important and a crucial aspect of like the human condition and being a person. You know, and I think people talk about like mental.
41:10
health and I’m 100% pro mental health. I have a counselor, I love it. You know what I mean? I think it’s wonderful. We need to mentally like be there and physically is good too. It’s good to be physically healthy. I fully support that too. But I think a lot of times the spiritual side of being a person gets left out or is just non-existent in someone’s life. And it’s like, I’m not saying you have to be like religious, you know, or anything like that, but you.
41:35
You do have a soul, you do have a spirit. It is an aspect of humanity and it’s very important. So like what’s happening there? Because if you’re not guiding your own path, is there something that’s guiding it for you and you don’t know? Or like what’s going on there? Is it dead? You know what I mean? Like what is it?
41:58
there’s something occurring. So like, it’s probably good to maybe look into that. Like, what are you doing for your spirit? You know, because that spirit can and is very powerful if you allow it to be, and absolutely can and will shine through in these deep depths of adversity. Truly. And as you’re saying, the body is capable of so much and the body is driven by the mind, but as you’re saying, people forget
42:28
what drives the mind is the spirit. They are the trifecta, they’re all connected. And that’s why when we get in our own head, and when we have this negativity, and we’re having this petty party, we have to be able to allow that spirit to, it’s like, listen, I’m taking my hands off the wheel. I’m just walking through faith and not by sight at this point. Absolutely, walking through faith. That’s exactly what it is. And that is super important to be able to do.
42:52
And, you know, that’s why I go back to like, hey, it’s important to not forget your spirit and your spiritual health and your spiritual well-being, because what in the world are you going to do when you’ve been totally physically devastated, when you’re naked out in the freaking jungle surviving, you know, and your mind is cracking, you know, like what’s going to be there your spirit? Okay, well, what in the world have you been doing for the thing? You know what I mean? Like, you’ve been a
43:20
it because that thing’s gonna be like, like rearing its ugly head, you know, and so, and I think that does happen. I think we’ve seen plenty if you’ve seen any other episodes of negative frame, there have been some people stuff that’s come out and you’re like, whoa, put it back, put it away. There’s so much of that. I think also you brought up a great point about in the survival sort of situation, we can’t just burn ourselves out in the first 72 hours.
43:49
It is very much this marathon, slow, slow step, slow and steady wins the race. Yes. But you also seem to have this capacity. If dare I say that you understand that it’s a marathon and it’s a sprint. It’s a marathon of sprints in many ways. And you’ve made, and so when you make peace with that, that doesn’t catch you off guard when it happens, having that expectation is what allows you to ex take things as they come without being extremely pessimistic.
44:18
Also, that allows you to have a tremendous vessel to channel gratitude when you do get these wins, when you get the caveman, when you get the elan, when you have these victories, it gives you so much more to be able to fill with. Oh, absolutely. Yes, totally agree. And you’re 100% right. Like seriously, it’s a marathon, it’s not a sprint. And yes, within it, there are sprint portions for sure. And being able to pace yourself.
44:48
is massive. Oh Lord, I can tell you right now. I have seen and I’m not naming any names at all because I’m not a person to call anyone out. But I have seen people with strategies where they just go, go, go, go and they just hit the wall every time, every single day. And then you’re down and out, you know, and you kind of like did that to yourself, you know, because you didn’t pace yourself.
45:14
And I’m not even saying with people that I’ve necessarily been with, but you see this constantly on these survival shows where they just go so hard and it’s like, oh, it’s a survival situation. You have to keep going until you die. And it’s like, well, if you do that, you will die. And you’re gonna be done and you’re gonna have to tap out because you’re gonna be dead. And that happens all the time. You have to pace yourself. It is so crucial. And so for me,
45:41
And something I had said, I don’t know if this was shown on the TV because not much I did or said was shown on the TV, but it might have been where I had said something about my strategies more of the tortoise, less of the hare. I think I might have said that one might have been shown. And that to me is like so critical because the tortoise, they just go along and it’s not like they’re not moving. They’re just moving at a good steady pace.
46:06
not always slow because I have tortoises on my property and those. Yeah, they’ll get up and go when they need to. Oh man, they go. Like they run, they sprint. You would not be here. It’s pretty amazing. I love tortoises. I’m not gonna lie. So they have like a stride. They have a good pace. They’re going along. They’re getting the job done. They’re still working hard. They’re still doing what they needed to do. And they cross the finish line in a decent time.
46:34
versus the hair and we all know the tortoise and the hare story where the hare, it just goes, it wears itself out, it gets distracted, it goes here, there, around in circles, you know, and it’s barely crawling across the finish line at the end of it, if it even makes it to the finish line. Right? And that’s another thing is, you know, I have to say with the strategy I just mentioned, in Columbia, it was met, it worked magnificently well.
47:00
it did. And I did actually cross the finish line pretty freaking strong for 40 days. And that’s something that I am proud of. It’s something that I know the strategy I have is effective and successful. And it’s something that I fully, fully recommend to other survivalists or other people in a situation like what I was in is just pace yourself and take care of yourself and your body.
47:29
And so what that would look like for me day to day really, because you didn’t see, like I said, you didn’t see a whole lot of it, was what I would do is I’d go out and I’d work for about an hour, 30 minutes to an hour, and I’d come back, I’d rest and I’d hydrate. I’d go back out 30 minutes to an hour, rest and hydrate. Go back out 30 minutes to an hour, rest and hydrate. And I would do that entire method all day. And I’d get hours of work done, lots of work, as much as my partners got done, truly.
47:58
but their strategies were a little different. They’d go out for a little bit longer, you know, and so, yeah, so for me, the strategy I employed worked very nicely. I was able to stay hydrated. I was able to stay as rested as a person can be out there, which is like, you know what I mean? Like you’re still totally exhausted, but you know, at least you did your best to take care of your body the way that you should really. So yeah, totally, totally recommend it.
48:28
fully comparable between, you know, endurance races and a survival situation is totally the way to go. It is. And I think that I think you did it beautifully. And I think that it also paid dividends for you because so for everyone that’s listening, if you haven’t watched it, get afraid. First of all, get out from under a rock. Second of all, go watch, go watch Shell’s 21 day and then go watch Shell’s Excel.
48:58
And you’ll see that that, that Excel was the first in history where they had, you were forced to cover 40 miles through 40 days. So while you’re sitting on the couch with your licky chewies and a nice, warm environment and judging people because it looks like they’re not out there busting their ass trying to get firewood. I want you to understand that there’s very much an intention behind it, but more to the point having to knowing that you have to cover a certain amount of distance.
49:27
in a certain amount of time to get where you need to go and then be able to say, okay, we’ve gone 10 miles to this big water source. We spent a lot of time and invest a lot of energy and calories to create this shelter. Now we have reliable food source, water, all these things. And now it’s like, ah, but I know that we’re going to have to pay that price of getting these next 30 miles. Yes. You ended up…
49:54
coming together, collaborating as a tribe, because it was the primary water source closest to your extraction. So there was a lot of social dynamics within that. There was a lot of different strategies sort of coming together in that, different ideas about leadership, what leadership looked like, who was doing what. So again, even if you don’t care about survival at all, if you wanna see what humans really look like, what happens when they’re under extreme adversity? This is where you can learn. And that’s why I found it so compelling. But during the exit, as you guys were extracting,
50:24
You broke it down into a 10 mile and then another 10 mile because that’s what everybody agreed to be able to do. But I saw you and I know that you were suffering, but it seemed like you were able to just maintain this laser focus while you were walking. You did not appear physically to be suffering like some of the other people did. Is that because of it? I wasn’t. I was going to say, explain to us how that strategy served you.
50:53
Yeah, because of the fact that I worked so hard for the 40 days to pace myself and to take care of my body and frankly to take care of my partner’s body is the best way that I could. You can only mother people so much, you know what I mean? But because of the success of that, and don’t get me wrong, by the end we were all absolutely trashed. Okay? And I can’t harp on that enough.
51:21
And our bodies were very emaciated, all of us, you know. But because I did take intention to take care of myself, I was in the end, and because of the fact that, listen, I am an endurance athlete, right? This 40 miles in 40 days was like tailor fit for me. It really was. And I knew that going into it, because I didn’t know it was gonna be 40 miles in 40 days until day one when they told us and we’re like, oh, good to know, right?
51:49
Thanks for letting us know. So it’s a surprise. It is a surprise, by the way. We are surprised at these things. And so when I had learned that, I go, okay, Michelle, it is so important for me in my mind to go, I need to seriously work on not just taking care of my body, more so taking care of my feet, my legs, my partner’s feet and legs, making sure we’re all good so that we can at least…
52:19
be making these tracks, right? And at least be able to make it to the end through just this like tumultuous journey and hopefully make it as strong as we possibly can towards the end. And because Kayla, Mal and I, when we all got together, because we got so many Kateman, which by the way, we got quite a few more Kateman than they showed on the TV.
52:42
I had a feeling because you guys actually looked like you were able to maintain a lot more weight than everybody else. We were and we were very healthy and that whole Cayman gathering stuff was massively a team effort. We all did fishing, we all did processing, we all did catching and killing of the Cayman. So we were a great team. It really was. They did show it pretty accurately there.
53:06
And so because we worked so well as a team, getting those came in, we did, we were a lot, I’d say healthier when we were moving along. And we were able to have a little bit more of like the energy of course, from those larger meat sources. And so with all of that, at the end, that last trek.
53:31
I was incredibly solid. I was. I was as solid as a person could have been in that situation. And I just handled it exactly like an endurance race where I was like, I don’t have any doubts. There might have been some other people who I was out there with, they’re not endurance athletes. And I feel, I totally feel for them because in their minds, they might have been like, can I make it? And you’re like, yes, you can make it. And I was an encourager and I did my best to lift up my partners and all of my tribe mates as best as I could.
54:00
but it’s like, yes, you can make it. You know what I mean? Like your body can totally make it and we’re gonna make it because we’ll be damned if we made it 40 days and we don’t make this sea stupid last 10 miles. You know what I mean? And so it’s one of those things where it’s like, you just have to push through it. And that’s something that I am well rehearsed. And so that’s all I did is I pushed through it. And I have to tell you, during all of those tracks, you wouldn’t hear a single.
54:27
out of me because I certainly did not ever complain. The treks were what I, like, I don’t know if you’re familiar with the Jeff Z. He says, this is what I live for. It’s like a very common, yeah. And so I was like, well, this is what I live for. You know what I mean? Like, I’m just going along on these treks. This is like just another marathon, another triathlon, another whatever endurance race I’m doing. And that’s why it looked as,
54:57
I don’t want to say easy, but I mean, cause it wasn’t easy, but it’s, it’s, it’s up my alley. Yeah. And you were actually carrying water as well, which was one of the heaviest things to carry. I was just like, she’s actually carrying water is very much so the heaviest thing to carry. Yeah. And then actually the backpack, I have the backpack that was about, it was a 15 ish pound backpack I would say.
55:23
And it’s our cornucopia. We called it the cornucopia. It was our fish basket that Mal made. And we had turned that into kind of a backpack. So I had carried that for a significant portion of our trek as well, just purely because I’m actually an avid backpacker as well and have been for many years. And so carrying weight and being out in these like treacherous environments is like I said, this is what I live for. This is like totally me. This is made for me.
55:50
just give me the stupid backpack because I don’t want anybody else dying with this thing on their back. I know I can do it. Let’s like utilize my talents, right? Because this is where I come in clutch. And that comes back to when I was with the white infantry with 10th mountain where that’s what we that was our MO like we were the rocking guys like you to those type of an airplane 20 meters.
56:18
I mean, 20, you know, whatever it was 20 miles from the week, we’re able to just march through that thing, assault to the actual target. And now we’re in condition to still be able to fight and win as opposed to like, now we’re dragging ass and we can’t get there. And back to what you were saying, when you’re in those environments and we’re training in this extreme weather, they taught us what they call the rest up. And so you got your rock on and they would say, if you’re trying to get up
56:46
Like the mountain, you’re doing mountain warfare. Take the step, breathe. I can do more, shut up, listen to me. Take a step, breathe. You’re intentionally under indexing now because there absolutely will be a time when you will be redlined. And that’s common. But if you have the discipline to do that now and do these slower steps and give yourself a little bit of this reserve, now you’re not gonna burn it out when you get to that point.
57:14
And you can’t just say, Oh, I’m just going to rely on adrenaline to go through that because eventually there’s a point where there is nothing left, but you were a huge testament to what can happen when you actually do have intention, have strategy and say, yeah, I’m built for this. This is what I’m made for. I live for this. And now you just do endeavor to move forward. And I think that that was a great form of leadership on your part because. You having that physical capacity and being able to be there.
57:42
asking this person if they’re okay, what can I get you? Do you need water? As you’re moving, as you’re walking, that’s what leadership is. Leadership is walking towards a goal and then compelling people to wanna follow you, literally. And that’s what you did on the show. Well, thank you. I really appreciate that. I had never looked at it that way, but I can totally see why you would say that and where that would come from. And for me, I’ve always been a surfer.
58:09
you know, and I appreciate serving. I appreciate serving the people in my life who I love. You know, my husband, my parents, my family, my friends, my community, my farm even, my animal shoot. I’m like their biggest servant. I’m like their bitch boy. You know, I’m the one, I go out and I do all this stuff. I clean up their poop, I give them their water, I make sure they have the best food in the world. You know, it just is, yeah, I truly do serve in a lot of aspects and I actually do enjoy that and I value that.
58:39
And I think that that is something that does really make me a good team player, because I’m like, listen, what needs to get done? I’ll just do it. You know what I mean? Like, where can I fit into the group? What are the skills I can use to help us be successful? Like, where can I help you? Where are you hurting?
59:00
okay, let me help here. I do have a bit of a background in herbalism as well. I’m like the crazy plant lady. I’m the forager. I was like the main forager and plant identifier out for my tribe and for my partners. And so that’s like a major survival skill of mine. And I was able to utilize those things. I was able to do a lot of herbal medicine out there and solve a lot of ailments. Unfortunately, none of it was shown. I was a little disappointed about that.
59:29
but I have a lot of my tribe mates and people who still come to me and are like, I’m so happy that you were there to help me in that way. And it’s like, that’s just who I am. I’m a server, you know? Like if you need help, what in the world can I do that I know in my brain or in my body or in my skillset can help you? And so I think that’s a great thing to kind of maybe strive for, you know, is like, what can I do? Where can I fit in? Because for me, I don’t want to be the star of the show ever. I don’t.
59:58
I don’t want the limelight. I don’t want the camera pointed at me. Like, can you point the camera away? You know what I mean? Like, you can highlight Nathan, who’s an amazing person. They’re all amazing, honestly. But like, you can highlight someone else. You know, like, I’m just in the background. I had this thought the other day because I have had a lot of interesting feedback where people have been kind of like, oh, why didn’t you do more up?
01:00:27
And for one, it’s like, well, I did a ton. You just didn’t see a lot of what I did. So don’t ask me why I didn’t do more. I did a ton. I was a supporting role. I wasn’t the hero of the story. I didn’t want to be the hero of the story. I wasn’t trying to be. I was not trying to be the main character. And I wasn’t the main character at all for this XL. And they didn’t design me to be the main character because they didn’t highlight me enough to be anyways. So.
01:00:56
For me, that was never my pursuit. It was never the network’s pursuit, frankly. It was never a thing that was going to occur. I was always gonna be a supporting role. I was always gonna be a teammate and a team player in the background. And that’s exactly who I am. And that’s what I want to be. Like I’m not gunning for the leadership role. Someone else can take that. And I willingly was like, hey, you guys wanna be leaders? You know what I mean? Go for it. You wanna start making decisions and telling people all this?
01:01:26
Like I’ll just sit here and leave my basket. You know what I mean? So for me, like, I think it’s really important to also just discuss like, it’s important and it is valuable and there is nothing wrong with being the person who’s a supporting role. And with being a person who’s a team player and who’s like an active participant in the situation, because even though I would agree with you, it’s like a type.
01:01:55
B-style leadership. It’s not an A-type leadership, you know, A-type being very, um, but, but not everybody is gonna be the main character in the star of the show. And that is okay. Be who you are. Be the supporter. Be the encourager. Be the motivator. You know, be the person working in the background, you know, and those people are so freaking important.
01:02:23
And so it’s like, we don’t want to diminish that those people still have such an amazingly important role to the group dynamic, you know? And so that was just something that like in my mind, I had kind of thought over the last days and I just wanted to put that tip encouragement for people who are like, oh, I’m just the shy one in the corner. Girl, so am I, you know what I mean? And that’s okay. You know, that is so okay. But that’s that’s what true servant leadership is.
01:02:52
The leader isn’t necessarily the person that’s arcing out commands. Most of the time that’s the person that’s trying to lead. But the leader is the one that’s able to step back and say, actually, I think we should be going this way. I don’t have to be the guy that leads us that way, but I’m just pointing it out and saying, listen, it looks like there’s Cayman over here or there’s water over here, or there’s tigers over there. Let’s get away from that. I mean, it sometimes being the voice of reason is what a true leader is.
01:03:16
Yeah, no, and I totally agree. It’s just so almost counter-cultural sometimes. Of course. Because our culture does. It’s the person who’s always in the front and always the person who’s like, oh, look at me, camera, point at me. You know what I mean? And like, ooh, I’m very loud and I have a loud personality and I’m always talking. And for me, I’m the opposite of that. I don’t truly have a very boisterous and loud personality. I’m not the one who’s always talking. I’m listening.
01:03:45
and I love being a listener, you know, and I’m contributing in like subtle ways. And there’s nothing wrong with subtlety and gentleness and like kindness and like support, you know what I mean? And so I just think like culturally it’s rough because we are in like a culture and like a kind of a time here in America where it’s always the people like screaming the loudest and talking the loudest and being just
01:04:16
like, I don’t know, loud, you know, that like get all the attention and all the credit. And it’s like, it’s like, let’s give credit to some of the people who are just like in the background and there’s nothing wrong with that. So anyways, I love that. And I absolutely get off my soapbox. No, no, I think it needs to be said. And I think that that’s, that’s the part of it. That’s what sustainable leadership is. That’s what sustainable culture.
01:04:46
is asking people what they believe. What do you think? What am I missing? We have to listen to people with the expectation that they know something about this that I don’t. And if I listen with that sort of intention, you find it. But if I don’t listen to anybody because I think I have all the answers, there’s a really good chance that I’m blind to something. There’s a really good chance that there’s some aspect that they see that I don’t. And if I have too much of an ego to do that, then it’s like, that makes it even worse. And I’ll challenge you on this.
01:05:16
You are very much a supporter and a nurturer, and you give that compassion and empathy to others. Do you allow it to come back to you? Yeah, I think so. Beautiful. Yeah. My partners, you know, I have been so blessed. I really have. I’ve been incredibly blessed, which I think has been an intention. I personally do truly believe that God put each and every person that I was out there with into my life.
01:05:43
and they are a very special part of my life still to this day. I have a serious love and care and value for them. And Cole was put in my life very intentionally and specifically, and he returned. He did, he’s a great partner. He’s a really great man in person. And he did return that to me while we were out there. And we do still have a decent.
01:06:08
you know, relationship and with my partners in Columbia, Mallory, me and her, we have a great relationship. We’re two very different people, truly. You know, and that’s not bad. It’s not bad. You know, we have different strengths, which is great because we could both kind of divide and conquer. Chris, somebody who I haven’t mentioned yet. Chris is an amazing person and an amazing survivalist. And him and I connected really well too. And we’re still super close.
01:06:38
Kayla is a firecracker and an amazing woman. And I’m still super close with her too. And you know, I think each and every one of them, they have their value, they have their skillset, they have their area of expertise, they have their personality, and I fully value everything that they are, you know. And…
01:07:01
I think that that’s just a really great way to approach life and relationships is like there each and every person has what they offer. And there’s there’s not really a wrong there, you know. And so, yeah, I just can’t remember why I was talking about all my partners just now because I lost my train of thought. No, that’s why we have a long format conversation. But I was just asking, I know some people that will go the extra mile for everyone else in their life. But if they
01:07:30
But if somebody tries to give it back to them, they don’t allow it. Yeah, resistant. Right. Yeah, no, I try my best to accept everybody else’s love, too, if I can get that. And yeah, like I said, so my partners did. They were very good supporters to me out there and were very sensitive to me and who I am. And we did it. It’s unfortunate this wasn’t shown either, but Mallory, Kayla, and I, when we were all together, doing our came and kill and living our best life.
01:07:58
There was a time because they’re both very extroverted, kind of almost like louder personalities. And for me, it’s very overpowering to kind of like my type of personality. And there was a time where I was feeling like, Whoa, it’s just these two girls and they’re like yelling and screaming at the camera. And they’re yelling and screaming at me not like in an aggressive way, you know, but they’re just so loud.
01:08:24
that the inner introvert me was like, oh my gosh, I need just like a second of quiet, you know what I mean? And so we had this conversation where I was like, hey guys, is there any way, when we’re having these discussions instead of Mallory and Kayla making all the decisions, can we maybe ask me what I have to say? And they were like, oh my gosh, I’m so sorry, I’m sorry I did that. And it’s like, no, no, no, it’s not anybody’s fault.
01:08:53
It’s just that like there’s times when I get lost in the background because you two are so overpowering and like not an intentional way, just in that’s who you are. And I have a hard time speaking up. I do because I can’t even get a word in edgewise, you know, like how, where, where was there a spot for me to talk? And I hate talking over people. And so we had this really great exchange between all of us where it was like a team building thing. And they were like, Oh my gosh,
01:09:22
I didn’t realize I was doing that. Yes, absolutely. We’ll ask you what you have to say and we’ll stop talking and we’ll shut up, you know? And so it was a really great team building thing for us where they could acknowledge, okay, sometimes we need to shut up so that we can be like, Chanel, do you have something to say? And I can be like, yep, sounds good, you know, or whatever it is that I have to say. And we ended up having this really great team dynamic where we’d all get together and they’d have their like million words that they said, and then they’d stop and go.
01:09:52
Okay, what do you have to say? And so then I’d have, you know, I’d have my three or four words that I had to say or whatever. And, you know, at least I could have the space to talk. And so they were very sensitive to like, you know, the situation and just really great human beings. And I just, like I said, was totally blessed to have them out there. Yeah. You had a beautiful complimentary dynamic. A couple of questions that some more questions from our listeners. One of them.
01:10:18
was asking, okay, so you’ve gone through this 21 day and then this 40 day, and we get to see you guys finally get to eat. They video that and they show all those things. Yeah. Then afterwards you get a shower. Are you just taking like antibiotics? Are you covering your body and like slathering it and like meant to try to recover? What does reentry look like? How, what is the, how do you recover from something like that? Yeah.
01:10:47
That’s a great question. Let’s just say that each and every one of us, myself included, you take like three or four showers minimum when you first get back because there’s many loads of dirt that comes out the whole body. Layers and layers, yes. Yes. And all the crevices and the hair is the worst part for sure. So yeah, so as far as reintegration, 40 days.
01:11:14
It’s totally different, like I said, than the 21 because of just the significance of it. And it’s much, much harder on your body. I can’t even express to you how hard that is on your body. And a lot of my triad mates did leave Columbia with all different kinds of like health, you know, things which I’m not gonna get into like their health situation. A few of them.
01:11:40
I ended up having dengue and stuff like that, you know, in parasite situations and stuff like that. But yeah, it’s rough, you know. And so thankfully, we did have like a health checkup when we first left. And they like weigh you and they like make sure that you’re, you know, feeling as okay as you could possibly be feeling after all of that. And I’d say like stimulation wise, it’s rough because you’re coming from the depths of the wilderness.
01:12:09
back into modern-day society where there’s just so much. There’s lights, there’s noises of vehicles and all this different stuff. And reintegration of your nervous system almost is rough because it’s like, oh my gosh, modern-day society is so loud and it’s so obtrusive.
01:12:38
to the body and to the mind. And just the stimulation of that is like exhausting. And so that’s hard. It takes a little while to like adjust to that. It also takes a while for your like system to adjust to.
01:13:02
like being back in society just in general and like having your friends and family pair and having like a bed that you sleep in that you literally, you’re just like this, you’re like a person who I don’t even know how to describe it. Because you’re going from the extreme worst that you could possibly be in in life, right? Sleeping on the dirt in a hut that you built.
01:13:29
all this stuff naked, all this stuff into like this cushy, you know, five star type situation, like bed, you know, with food. And oh my gosh, I don’t have to boil water before I drink it and wait how for many hours, because that’s a process that takes hours, by the way. I think people don’t realize that. And I could just go to the faucet and get water, just basic things like that, that everybody takes for granted all the time.
01:13:59
that you have this new, of course, appreciation for it. And it’s the same thing with after Africa, for sure. But I just think after 40 days, it’s so much deeper, I would say. And you’re in such worse condition, leaving 40 days and you do 21 that physically like it actually like recovering physically was so much longer, honestly.
01:14:28
after 40 days. And for me, and a lot of people don’t know this, and because I’m ridiculously crazy apparently, I actually did the two challenges back to back. So my 21 day was two months. So my 21 day was two months exactly before my 40 day. And so yeah, actually my body and my bones, my actual physical bones on a medical standpoint.
01:14:55
were still healing when I went into the Colombian jungle. So yeah, two months is not anywhere near enough of healing time in between challenges, by the way, I don’t recommend it. It’s stupid. I will fully like admit that. The reason I chose to do it is because I truly felt like I was put on this purpose, like we kind of discussed earlier. And so I knew when I had confidence deep within me that I could and would do.
01:15:25
the 40 day. So that’s why I chose to do it. Health wise, I definitely don’t recommend it to anyone else because doing them back to back like that is just very rough. And I am very blessed and happy that I don’t have any lingering health ramifications, but I very much so could have because I did do the challenges back to back. So that’s something that’s a very real thing.
01:15:55
Yeah. It’s mind blowing. I want to be respectful of your time, but I’ve just got a couple more questions before we put a point. Oh yeah, hit me down. Let’s go another hour. I know we’re in the zone, let’s go. And maybe we’ll have another one in the future when you have time. You made a comment and I’ve paid attention to what I saw. I’ve watched your episodes many times. You said that Excel was one of the most difficult things you’ve ever done. Yeah, I did say that, yes. You alluded to.
01:16:24
to mean that there were other things that have been more difficult. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Could you expand on that? That’s a great, I’m so glad you brought that up because I will love talking about this in ways. You know, life’s rough, right? I haven’t had the easiest possible life in the world. However, I do have to admit and also state that being a person in America in a first world country, our problems are truly super.
01:16:54
minor, you know, compared to a lot of the world’s problems. However, with that saying, it certainly was not the first like struggle and hard time, you know, that I’ve ever had in life for sure. I was previously married and I went through a very like tumultuous divorce. And it led me to like a very deep.
01:17:16
depressive state and also a very self-loathing state because of just the situation that I was in with that. And my ex-husband was at the time, like my best friend. And he was like a massive portion of my life who had actually dumped my past, present and future into that relationship. So, boundary issues there, you know, boundaries are very important in relationships.
01:17:42
And so when that relationship kind of ended, it ended like a very significant portion of me and myself. And I truly felt like I had to cut a piece of like my actual soul off in order to sever my relationship previously. And so that is something that I did end up accomplishing, but the pain of that was so deep into like my inner being that I ended up attempting to actually take my life at one point.
01:18:12
And it’s a part of my past that totally has shaped.
01:18:21
who I am. Sorry. No, you’re fine.
01:18:26
depression and self-loathing is very real. And it has a massive impact on lives. And it was a very dark pit that I worked very hard to lift myself out of. I wasn’t able to do it myself though. I, when I actually tried to take my life, I ended up blacking out and I ended up actually waking up.
01:18:56
and I felt a peace that surpassed my understanding surrounding me. And I know that my life is spared for a reason, and it was not a choice of my own because I genuinely did one as I that day. And…
01:19:22
That’s one of the hardest things I’ve ever in my life had to deal with because when I woke up, I no longer had a desire to die anymore. And I realized that God had saved and sustained my life. And I realized at that moment that my life had a purpose, that I had no clue what it was, but.
01:19:50
I was going to find out and I was going to spend my life devoted to what is that purpose, you know, and where can I serve and where can I help and where can I make a difference and who am I going to become. And I have worked very hard to live a life of purpose and live a life of servitude.
01:20:21
you know, that time of my life, you know, as tragic as that is and as terrible as that is, you know, is a time that totally transformed my outlook on life. And I’ve gone from that moment, viewing every single day as a gift, even the worst ones, as we’ve kind of discussed, you know, because it’s like, I’m still here. I’m still going.
01:20:51
And I was able, thankfully, via the grace of God in my life, I was able to regrow the portion of my soul that I lost that day. And it grew back so much stronger. And I am such a stronger person. And I feel like I’ve been fortified. And I feel like I’ve been reborn, you know? And I…
01:21:19
view life so different and I even view death very differently. Frankly, I truly feel like everybody has a time. And for me, I sit there and I go, my time’s my time. So I’m living life to the biggest and the fullest and I am, you know, and, you know, that’s like I said, that’s what I strive for. So that’s one of the aspects that was harder than all of this for sure for me, that’s a life very much so life and death situation, you know.
01:21:48
And on top of that, I’d have to say that parenting, I have to tell you that parenting, so I’m a bonus mom, I have, I’m two stepdaughters, bonus daughters, and they’re amazing, you know? And they, their lives and the shaping of their lives, they’re older now, but.
01:22:16
when they were younger and still now, because you’re still parents of older kids. And just being a part of their lives is so important. I had this moment early on when my husband and I, we were engaged at the time and he had been a single father for a while to these girls. So he was doing the mom dad thing and he’s such a very strong, amazing man. And so when I came into their lives, I had this kind of moment of like,
01:22:45
Oh my gosh, this is so important and you can’t mess this up. You know, because these girls are so much more important than I, you know, and they’re more important than my husband is. And they’re important than me and my husband. And they, the shaping and just the training and the learning and everything that goes into like them as a human being is like so freaking important that I had, I almost had this little like.
01:23:16
Oh my gosh, you can’t mess this up. Don’t do anything stupid, you know, which is like rough because it’s like, Ooh, you know, you can’t really put that kind of pressure on yourself, but it’s good to understand that that is like so much more important and anything. And so I took that very seriously and I still do, of course. And, um, parenting has been rough. It’s been so hard, you know, in so many different aspects and.
01:23:44
to me, I would have to say just in general, it’s harder than the time out there. And I’d say that purely because being out there was like, right, like I chose to be out there. You know what I mean? These kids’ lives is just so much more important than me choosing to be out there. And it’s so much more impactful on a grander scale that to me,
01:24:13
it’s just much harder and it’s much more of like a trying time. So for me, parenting is harder and in my, what we just discussed. So, yeah, those are two instances I can think of. There’s probably a lot more, but I’m like, we’re not going to get into the details of my life’s trauma. But, but thank you for trusting me and sharing that. That’s huge. I mean, you, your
01:24:42
capacity to embrace that adversity and boldens others to overcome their own. Thank you for that. Yeah, it’s super important, I think, to be vulnerable and to show that life’s not a cakewalk. It’s just not, you know, it’s rough and there’s a lot of adversity. And even though some of the accomplishments that I’ve had out in the wilderness and with my survival time, especially through my challenges with Naked and Afraid.
01:25:11
ridiculously hard and torturous times for sure. But certainly still aspects of life, man, are just so much rougher and harder. And, you know, getting through those and pushing through and relying on something even greater than ourselves is something that like is really just crucial. Yes. Shell, I want to be respectful of your time. Where can we learn more about you? Where can we go? Tell us about your farm. Tell us about
01:25:41
All the things that you’re doing. Okay, yeah. So I don’t have a website. I used to have a farm website. But now that I do, I really work with the same customers. I have a local CSA. It’s called Community Smart Agriculture. And so I have the same customers for our egg and meat. I’m an egg and poultry farmer. So that’s what mainly we’ll have turkey quail chicken that we process. And then we also have different eggs as well, including guinea fowl and duck.
01:26:11
and email. So we have a variety of products that we provide to our community. So I don’t do the website anymore because of that it just is kind of expensive. So I cut that off. And so now I don’t have any websites, but I do have some social media, I have a Facebook page and I do have an Instagram at shell underscore Sonrisa and Sonrisa means smile in Spanish, by the way. You can definitely follow along with the adventures and the farm and all the different
01:26:41
things about me on those platforms. I don’t, I’m not on them very often anymore. Social media has been crazy. It’s been like a lot for me with everybody like contacting me, you know, and just so many different like aspects of that. So I’ve had like a bit of a rough time with it. So I’ve been trying to distance myself from social media lately, but I will pop on there every once in a while and I’ll see the messages and see all the different stuff. So
01:27:10
Yeah, that’s where you can follow me and yeah, my farm, I’ll give you a little bit of a piece of my farm. We have a small community farm here in men’s central Florida, East Central Florida, we’re just right outside of like Kennedy Space Center area for those people who kind of like no Cape Canaveral. We’re just kind of inland from there. And we have what we would call
01:27:31
like a regenerative farm. It’s a type of style of farming where you really contribute back to the land, you enrich and you nurture the land and the piece of earth that you are stewarding, as opposed to taking away from the nutrients and the soils and stuff like that. And so we really value things like free ranging. And so all of our animals, they totally free range our property. And we
01:27:59
Also, like our plants, our fruit trees and our vegetables, all are, we’ve got compost and we’ve got a lot of like natural styles where we work together with the natural cycles of central Florida so that we can plant, you know, different trees and plants that actually will like work well in our climate and our environment, as opposed to having to like kind of bend, bend the, you know, the environment towards what we want it to do. So yeah, just that’s.
01:28:28
how we do things and we believe in sustainable agriculture, which is kind of the direction that a lot of different places around the world are trying to kind of go instead of just like factory, large scale factory farming and monocropping and stuff like that. So yeah, it’s something I have a passion about and I’ve always loved agriculture and I’ve been in it for most of my life and will probably continue in that direction. I love that. Are we going to see you in the future on another negative and afraid challenge?
01:28:58
I don’t know. So everybody stay tuned. Everybody stay tuned and follow her so you can keep up with that. Yeah, yeah, I kind of hate being filmed. So I have like a love hate relationship. I love being out there and I love that environment, but I hate the filming side of it in a lot of aspects of it. So I don’t know. I don’t want to say like no to it, but I don’t want to actually say yes either. So we’ll see. I love it.
01:29:27
Michelle, thank you for everything. Thank you for your leadership, for your love, for your compassion, for your openness, and for everything that you’re doing. I think you’re an incredible testament and example of a person who lives Okta Non-Verba. And thank you for trusting me to be on the show. Thank you so much, Marcus. I really appreciate being here. Appreciate you. Thank you for listening to this episode of Acta Non Verba.
