When faced with Adversity, you always have a choice. In this episode I’m speaking with Scott McGee about how serving as a law enforcement officer has provided him an opportunity to learn empathy and to be aware of how he is perceived by those who need help. We’re exploring how that responsibility impacts the job, as well as the physical and mental health of those who serve.
Scott McGee is a mindful warrior on a path of service and gratitude. He is the founder and podcast host of The Sisu Way. He is also a 15-year police officer and SWAT team member in Southern California. Scott believes that health is wealth, there is vulnerability in strength, and that strength is a choice. He believes that you are the master of your fate, that you are the captain of your soul, and that you should get up strong and be unconquerable.
Episode Transcript:
00:55
I’m Marcus Aurelius Anderson and today’s guest lives in the Sisu Way, which shares the ethos of Acta Non Verba. Scott McGee is a mindful warrior on a path of service and gratitude. He’s the founder and podcast host of the Sisu Way, which we will talk about at length in this podcast. He also happens to be a 15-year policeman and SWAT team member in Southern California. Now Scott believes that health is wealth, the vulnerability of strength, and that strength is a choice. He believes that you are the master of your fate, that you are the captain of your soul.
01:25
and that you should get up strong and be unconquerable. Welcome for the show today, Scott. Thank you so much for being here. It’s an honor to be able to reciprocate. You have an amazing studio out there in California. I had the honor of being able to go out there and be interviewed by you on your podcast, the Sisu Way. So thank you for being here today. Well, thank you very much, sir. Thank you for that beautiful introduction, by the way. I was getting nervous when I hear those because it’s just like, oh my gosh, like just talking about me. But then again, like, and as we’ll talk, and as you know, introductions are…
01:55
part of it and we are more than our resumes and we are what we’ve overcome. That’s it and the resume is just enough to give us sort of a snapshot in time and that gives the listener an idea what they’re going to be in for but what’s beautiful about what you do and what I was talking about before is that I’ve met so many people that have been in military or law enforcement or any kind of you know high stakes environments and there are some of them that can take the lessons that they learn from hardships.
02:24
and they can use that to sort of catapult them to a higher level and they would use that to make them more developed in other areas, more multifaceted. And then some that just try to bear the burden and lots of times they become crushed by it. So what we’re talking about today will have a lot more, it’s going to have all these components, but that’s what I love because you like to accent some of those other areas because if I’m just telling you, you know, get it out and drive on and push on and adversity is a gift, there is a time for that.
02:53
but there are also times when we have to be aware of these other things. And you made a comment, I was in Los Angeles last year. We did Murph together with everybody at Kenny Canes at a Los Angeles CrossFit, Josh Montz, the incredible group of people out there, just great camaraderie, great energy, very powerful to be a part of that. And I remember you making a comment that even when you’re in combat, even if you’re trying to stop a bad guy that you
03:21
in your mind still have this running idea of empathy, understanding that this person has gone through something that put them in the position that they are right now, which may be the position where you’re trying to cuff them and stop them from hurting somebody else. And I think that’s so powerful because sometimes people just see us like you were mentioning that this is a policeman or that this is a firefighter or that this is a special forces person or this is a podcast host. And there’s much more to that.
03:48
Can you tell me kind of how you were able to get to that place? Because a lot of people just think we’re big brutes or this person is a police officer and that they must just have this single dimensional kind of attitude. Yeah. I mean, that’s a lot of areas to talk about there. Cause even if you break it down in law enforcement, most human beings that are come from the community want to get into the job because they want to serve their community and they want to help people.
04:16
So there’s that very pure feeling of service. And then once they get involved in the process, you know, the hiring process is stressful, the academy is stressful, the field training program is stressful, you’re still on probation, a lot of stressful pieces go on. And then you get out in the field and you still are trying to figure out how to navigate that chaotic scene. And so part of the culture or some things that are measured are
04:44
like how many calls you went to, how many arrests you have, how many citations you have, how many field interview cards you have. These are all things that are measurable. And so if you’re measurable, then you can kind of compare that to everyone else. Small example, like if you’re doing a yearly evaluation on someone and they have like no arrests, you know, it’s kind of like, hey, what’s going on here? Now keep in mind there’s no quotas, so that’s not a thing. It’s just a measuring tool. And so…
05:13
If that’s what kind of is the measuring tool, that’s what you end up trying to do. Yeah. I’ll start making an impact out there through those things that are trackable. Well, at some point in time, I kind of figured out where there’s more to the story here, because if someone has an issue, even if someone has a drug problem, then just getting caught, arrested and put in a jail cell, maybe that’s not necessarily the answer. That’s part of it. Like we’re.
05:41
like hall bosses of society or society’s parents. But there’s a whole other part of recovering human being that’s in that position. And so another example is if somebody take a 20 year old kid who’s out and just broke into somebody’s house and scared the residents, they freaked out, they locked themselves in the bedroom and that person runs out with the purse. And then we catch up to them. Now that particular act isn’t very good. Technically that’s, you might fall under the whole idea that that is a bad guy.
06:11
But if you were to really ask, is this a bad person? And what’s going on with this person? What was their childhood like? Did they grow up on the floor? Did they grow up like, did mom use drugs when she was pregnant? Did that kid get abused at some point? Did he have the opportunity to play sports? Did he have decent food? There’s all kinds of things that go into this. Is he being pressured by the local gang in his neighborhood to do that?
06:38
There’s so many things that come into play. So then when he comes there, I don’t know, just law enforcement need to victimize that human being even more. And so this is where like, unfortunately, yeah, there is a consequence for that action, but at least having empathy that that human being can be recovered and still have some respect. So that’s part of that. You know, there’s a whole, whole element of there and where a human being like me learns that stuff is because not everyone’s equally empathetic.
07:07
You know, there’s, and I’ve learned that improving one’s character over time takes time. There’s progress there and it grows and you keep growing, growing, growing. And then there’s certain moments that you have a massive amount of growth. And as you know, most of those times are through something traumatic and then it spends how you use those opportunities. And I said that word opportunity because everything has an opportunity. Right. Whatever external happens, if a human.
07:35
views it as an opportunity, then you can focus on the lesson and you can grow. Or as you know, you can focus on the pain and suffer. And even learning that and using events. So not only just events and professional, but life experience over time and going through my own, you know, personal traumas and suffering. And that type of life experience has taught me to treat a whole human being and understand that what is in front of me isn’t all that they are.
08:05
know, everyone’s struggling. The struggle is universal. We all have our stories are unique, but the struggle is universal. Absolutely. It’s part of the human condition. Yeah. And then seeking and having the ability to understand that and know that that is our shared humanity. And so I have empathy for that. And there’s some people that because they may not have the same mentality or they haven’t been through the same experience or they haven’t been able to develop empathy. I’ve had some people that have told me, they said, well,
08:32
If you’re going into combat like that, or if you’re going into adversity like that, there’s a part of you that will subconsciously hold back. Maybe you’re not able to commit 100% and that can be dangerous. Does that hold truth with you or is that just their limited mentality? That’s a fair question. That’s kind of where the whole discussion between the guardian and the warrior mindset is to go back and forth between those. But there’s a reason I’m not wearing a shirt. It’s even on the back of my phone here.
09:01
my sword here that’s wrapped with an olive branch. I have more than one tool, right? There’s a tool that’s used to improve a situation, whatever that situation is. And so when you’ve been here, you’ve seen my Excalibur sword and the meaning there. And so that image that I have, I made it into a strength as a choice shirt. And so the meaning that I have with that is that it takes strength to wield a sword. It takes strength, and the metaphor there, it takes strength to decide to fight.
09:30
Whatever that is, it takes strength to fight back against a workout. It takes strength to keep running in Murph when you’re in pain. It takes strength to fight cancer. It takes, you know, whatever it is in the battle that you’re in, that takes strength. So it takes strength to wield a sword, but it also takes strength to know when not to. And that to me is like the full, filling up the full sphere of what a guardian or warrior is.
09:59
So in a moment’s notice, it’s easy. Like I can show empathy and then back off and like draw my rifle. Like it’s not like I’m stuck in that one area and I’m skilled and I still train and all that the other side of the coin. You know, there’s action and there’s non action. It’s the same coin, two different sides. Well, and I believe that that’s a great thing to look at because if I’m an officer and I am looking at escalation of violence,
10:28
or de-escalation and I have a taser and I have a baton and I have pepper spray and then I have my sidearm. If I don’t have other skills like you’re saying, if I am not able to deploy empathy, if I’m not able to look at that and say, this is not a lethal force situation, I should go to this particular tool, this particular weapon, so to speak, then that allows me to be fluent in that. But if I am not skilled to defend myself or somebody else.
10:57
If I don’t have either the warrior skill set or even the guardian skill set, my default is going to be I’m in danger. I’m scared. I’m going to draw my weapon. And now there’s only one answer here, or there’s only one potential answer, which is not always the right answer. And it’s so easy for people to look after the fact and Monday morning, quarterback, anybody, and we see it all the time. So it’s easy for somebody to say, Oh, well, you know, you should have done this, but they’re not the ones that are in the arena. They’re not the ones that are in the ring.
11:27
They’re not under the duress. And I think that that’s something that people overlook. So even though skillsets, you have to out train your anxiety. You have to out train your insecurities in them. So you’re confident in them. And even like the ability to communicate with somebody and is a skill set like verbal judo, you’ve heard that before. But that is a tactic. That’s a skill to de-escalate a situation.
11:53
And as you know, if you can win a battle without ever having a fight, and that’s the ultimate goal. It’s Bruce Lee. It’s the art of war, learning to fight without fighting. And for those that don’t know you or see you, you’re a, not a small person. You’re in great shape. You’re what? You’re 6’2″. 6’2″. Until probably 2’10”, right now. So you’re physically imposing. So again, having that presence, that alone, if you know how to wield it properly, you can…
12:21
deescalate a lot of things and stop it, but at the same time, there are advantages and disadvantages to anything. So for some people, if they see you show up on the scene and you’ve got all your gear on and you’re this big person with a shaved head, that may actually trigger some of them to think, you know what, I’m going to have to click this up a notch or what have you. And I think that, I mean, obviously you’re aware of that because you’ve had to deal with it for the last, well, your entire life, but especially professionally. Do you go into the situation like you’re saying?
12:49
with that verbal judo in mind so that you don’t necessarily have to come to some sort of physical altercation to the best of your ability? Oh, yeah. I do not want to get invites. I don’t want to chase people. In fact, I don’t even want to go to calls. If I could just hang out and drink coffee and relax, that’d be great. Just that and the absence of crime is the ultimate goal of law enforcement. And there’s little moments where there isn’t any reported crimes until we don’t say anything.
13:19
you know, shh, and then of course that doesn’t last. So just going, and this is a perspective, whenever we go somewhere, it’s because somebody’s calling for help. We don’t just like go places, you know, unless it’s like a traffic stop or something like that. Whenever we’re driving fast, it’s because someone’s calling for help. So somebody, and I don’t know if you’ve ever called 911 before, but just that act of picking up a phone and dialing 911, that potentially could be the worst moment or day of that person’s life. That’s a big deal.
13:48
And so whenever, again, to reiterate, we are brought to places because someone’s calling for help. So I keep in mind, when I say I, there’s a ton of people like me and even better, keep like what kind of person would you want to come into that scene? Like if your mom or brother or sister or wife called, like who do you want coming to the scene? So that’s something that is a consideration. And then to get there and not have to get into anything physical is the goal. And even getting people to comply is the goal.
14:17
Like, hey man, like you just threw your wife down the stairs, kind of happy. You’re going to be arrested right now. Can you please just put your hands behind your back? We’re going to place handcuffs. This is a process. And then we’re going to the car and then we’re going to station and get booked. But how often do you think that happens? You know, like even me, and I use the example, like if you were to show up, you’re the control officer and you know that I just beat up my wife in front of my kids and you can’t just, you can’t leave.
14:47
the state says that you can’t leave that situation. And then you go to arrest, ask me to turn around, sped my feet, put my hands behind my back, and I’m just, no. No, in fact, I’m gonna throw all the cuss words at you, no. And I started loosening up my arms. How do you end that peacefully? So, there’s still an opportunity there, by the way, to end it peacefully. And I share that story because ultimately we’re not trying to get into anything physical.
15:17
There’s a lot of danger there, risk of injury, there’s diseases that we deal with, there’s spending time at the hospital, there’s just liability. But sometimes police work isn’t pretty, and that’s what society expects of us. So even in those situations, so if I get there, I’m aware that physically fit is a factor. I’m aware that uniform appearance is a factor. So I keep everything sharp.
15:46
gear shining, my boots are polished. Just so it gives you an appearance that if someone was thinking about potentially running, fighting, trying to hurt anybody, it’s kind of like, well, maybe not today. And I take pride in just the ability to wear that uniform on my skin and wear the badge. To me, that is a complete honor. So I like trying to honor the uniform and honor the profession and honor the public. Right. You hold yourself to a very high standard in so doing. Yeah. And then…
16:15
I’ve also learned the skills that in that position to show people empathy and validate their feelings. Even if it’s something really ridiculous, like my neighbor’s TV is too loud, you have to do something about it. That happens trust me. Like I got called to a loud squirrel one time. Are you kidding me? Oh, what? A loud squirrel? Did you take him in? Did you take the squirrel into custody and take his nuts from him and everything? Here’s the thing. That was a great opportunity for me to connect with that person.
16:45
to that human that was calling for help. Like we talked and set them, set stuff up and get an animal control number. Like I made that every op is an opportunity for a positive contact, regardless of my judgments of what they are calling for help. And that’s an important thing. Like someone’s calling for help, not to judge that and to do our best with it. Well, and like you said, there’s probably a lot of other things again, if we’re able to have that ability to stand back, because where you’re at, like I said, on our interview, emotions assassinate the truth.
17:14
because when you’re in the heat of it, your emotions are very high and everything’s volatile. So did that person, again, that was something that it was so stressful to them that they had to call somebody and there’s nobody else in their mind that they can call that’s gonna make that happen. But that shows that there’s a lot of other stuff that’s either has gone on in their life, is currently going on in their life, stress, trauma, anxiety, fear, whatever the case may be. And to come back to your point, I have a lot of law enforcement friends and one of them was
17:42
talking about a study where they were saying that if you are polished and you are squared away and you are a professional, that person is less likely, like you said, to act out. But if I’m my guts over my belt and I’ve got doughnut residue on me and a coffee stain and I’m not looking around, then that person may think, well, I may have an opportunity to punch this person or run or to outrun this person because there’s no way they can get to me. And I think that that’s the physical deterrent just in your physicality.
18:13
but also in the mentality that you have, which can be a deterrent as well, because that follows through into what you’re doing and that comes out in your actions. Yep, and over time, gotten better with that. Even talking to a potential suspect or somebody and really to talk to them as a human, not as said bad guy that just did an act. And that helps, because you’re still validating them. They have their own perspective. Doesn’t mean I have to agree with it, but.
18:39
It builds a relationship with them, even though potentially arresting them. And that takes time. And then also learning to deescalate a witness or a victim and ensuring them that, Hey, you know, doing some rough things and letting them know they’re safe. They’re okay. That we’re here. We’re going to help them. That’s another important factor of this. And people forget, at least with law enforcement, we take the heat and the attention, but the people behind the 911 calls are getting
19:08
victimized a lot and their lives are completely altered by the actions of other people. And so, like I said earlier, we go to things because somebody’s calling for us, somebody needs us, somebody’s been victimized, and we go to help them. But they’re kind of like, like in the background of things, like even some of the like most of like the national, the popular stuff on the quote unquote media, those scenes, somebody called for help and brought law enforcement there. You know, it’s like, we didn’t just magically appear.
19:38
But that’s not part of the narratives. No, not at all. And so you’ve gone to a call and something happens and now you’re home safe and the, whoever the perpetrator has been put in jail and the other people that calls you are safe now, what, how is an officer, are you able to deal with that sort of that hardship, that stress? Are you told to do certain things to help you do that? Or is that something that you have to, because that’s a lot of pressure. I mean, that’s day in, day out. That doesn’t just go away. That’s Monday, you know, and then you have the rest of your shifts to deal with.
20:07
That’s not only Monday, that could be like the first call on Monday. Exactly. And you get the other 12 hours to go, right? Yeah. So this is a line of questioning I asked law enforcement. So is there any law enforcement officers or even military listening? They can answer these questions. Even you can answer this. Like, did your profession teach you how to draw your sidearm from your holster? Like, do you know how to do that? Do you know how to come up on target? Like, do you know how to clear a stovepipe malfunction?
20:38
How do you cope with stress? So that transition, most of the time, when I ask someone how to clear a stovepipe malfunction, and then for people that are familiar with pistols, a round or a bullet has a shell casing and the part of the bullet that is the projectile. Make it simple here. So when the round goes off, the slide pulls back to eject a shell casing. Well, sometimes a shell casing gets stuck when the slide moves forward.
21:08
So the gun is now malfunction, it’s not working, and there’s a shell casing stuck in the slide pointing upward. So that’s just what I’m talking about. Well, quickly, like, law enforcement or military, everybody knows fast, 100% knows how to clear that. And quickly, how do you clear a stove fight? Oh, you know, tap or rock, you know. Yeah, slap rock, yeah. But I’ve never heard of that happening. I haven’t heard of one shooting or any dangerous situation where that happened.
21:38
So I don’t even know what the odds of that happening are. It’s like 0.000001. But everybody knows how to do it and they know the answer is rattle it. So when I say how do you cope with stress, most of the time there’s a delay. It’s usually a thinking pause delay, not quiet. So right away that’s wrong. That’s wrong. You can’t answer how to clear a stope by with immediate 100% accuracy with it.
22:06
No chance of it actually happening in real life that I’ve heard of versus the thing that is going to happen with 100% accuracy. So we are going to, so what do you think the other answers are? Like, how do you cope with stress? Like usually there’s, there’s the delay, right? And the top two answers I get drinking and then physical fitness, which physical fitness is great. It is part of it, but physical fitness training and workouts by its very nature are still a sympathetic response. Stress.
22:36
And so, yeah, and maybe we’ll have time to break this down. But yeah, stress, you’re still getting fight or flight. You’re taking a pre-workout, you’re cranking up your music. It’s like, you’re not down regulating yourself. It’s a component of your overall wellness, yes, but it has nothing to do with the actual moment either, being in the moment. Right. Those are the most popular answers. Honestly, drinking is a problem. So if you break down law enforcement, and when I say law enforcement, I hope everyone knows it’s not, I’m speaking just from my particular profession.
23:06
But it’s, my guess is it’s going to be the same in the military and same in most people’s professions. But specifically, when we talk about officer safety or human safety or human wellness, in law enforcement, the suicide rate is twice as high as officers killed in the line of duty. So if you gather up all the officers that are killed in the line of duty, the suicide rate is double that. So, and then let’s just say you take that high number and then you break it down into what else.
23:35
literally kills us. Diabetes, stroke, cardiovascular disease, mixing some depression, alcoholism, bad relationships, divorce, you know, all of these things. There’s a common thread here with all of them. Coping with stress and having the skill set to do that. Now obviously some stuff is going to be genetic, I get it, but there’s still things that you can do for those. It’s not like, not necessarily always the death sentence, your genetics.
24:06
Sometimes yes, but you get my point. So if you have all these things that are very, very dangerous and literally killing us and causing us poor health and in turn making us also make bad decisions while on duty, to me there’s no bigger officer safety issue. Yet we’re not teaching ourselves how to do it. We’re not teaching ourselves how to cope with acute and chronic stress and trauma. And it’s really simple, like the ability to teach the self-awareness of it and then some self-regulation skills.
24:35
And I know you know this, but it’s just, it’s almost like heart breaking for me. Cause you see it. It’s like, imagine seeing a bunch of people and they’re, they’re unhealthy. They’re having diabetic issues or overweight, having trouble breathing while walking upstairs yet all they eat is like McDonald’s Jack in the box, Carl’s Jr. But they have no idea that that stuff is bad for them. That’s kind of the way I look at it. It’s like, we got to teach ourselves that that kind of food is not good for them. That there’s other options available. So that’s a big component.
25:05
Right. And I don’t know how much time wants to talk about even breaking that down, but I think that it’s powerful because what you’re saying is about physical stress and like true stress from being in combat. But a lot of people, when you were talking about sympathetic and parasympathetic, there’s a lot of people now because they have a sedentary lifestyle, they cannot differentiate between a true threat and a person that cuts them off in traffic or a person who’s actually trying to hurt them and a disagreement with a spouse or a
25:35
So to them, the stress is still there. It’s still a sympathetic situation. They are still in a highly adrenal state. So now they are unable to deescalate. So that anxiety, the semantics of how it gets there doesn’t matter, it’s still anxiety. And for that person, it can still be in their mind, almost life or death. So what you’re talking about can help anybody, whether they be in a stressful environment, in a relationship or in a job, or literally have their life on the line every day like you do. So I think it’s so important.
26:05
Yeah, there’s a lot of cues for that. A lot of symptoms that arise. One, the traffic one is great. But if you get cut off in traffic and you start cussing out loud, that’s a sign that you need to work on some deregulation. Yeah, for sure. Because it’s one, it’s okay. Like it’s okay, unless that person almost like, kills you, okay. But even the person that moves over in front of you.
26:31
And this is a little skill set that I’ve started using that’s helped me with my own emotional health is to put love into that person, like put love places. So if something cuts off, and this is a practice, again, all this stuff is a practice, it’s not perfect, if something merges into it laying in front of me, like last minute on the freeway or whatever, I’ll put love into that car and be like, oh man, they must be under a lot of stress, they’re probably gotta deal with a lot of kids that are stressed out, their kid might be unhealthy, they’re late for their doctor’s appointment, something.
27:00
Because if by putting love out there, man, like that just makes one makes me feel a lot better. And now that is not injuring my internal system. Yeah, I got enough stuff to go to deal with. I don’t it doesn’t need to be always be self inflicted. That is still an external event that doesn’t need to have control of my internal environment. And again, that takes practice. No external versus internal. But understanding that skill set, oh, another cue people signing a lot. You know, this right here.
27:32
Like if you see somebody doing that, a whole bunch check on them. But even that, let’s break that down. What’s a sigh? Usually their stress cup is runneth over. That’s why their body is dumping that energy per se. What’s a sigh? It’s a one part inhale to a two part exhale coupled with a grunt or a noise because it stimulates your vagus nerve which helps you shift to a parasympathetic state. That’s what your body is naturally doing.
27:59
But you can have awareness of that self-awareness of that and understand what it does to your system and then do it yourself on purpose to regulate. And I tell people in order to regulate your emotions, you have to stabilize your attention. And that could be something as simple as staring at a leaf or for me lately playing the ukulele or bringing your mind into your breath. And I bring that part up because this is a simple tactic. The one part inhale to a two part exhale. I got the one to breath.
28:29
Even understanding breathing is important, right? Most people say, take a deep breath. But what does that mean exactly? Do I breathe in all like, like, did I just do a deep breath right there? Like, but really I just took a panic breath. That’s an agonal breathing. Like that’s, if you jump out and scare somebody, that’s what they do. That’s a sympathetic response and through the mouth. So understanding that breathing through your mouth is still a sympathetic.
28:58
I keep saying these words sympathetic is like firefly. I mean the parasympathetic, right? The rest, the rest and relaxed state. You know, a lot of the stuff I should have probably broke down earlier, but sympathetic firefly, parasympathetic is like Hawaii mode almost. Yeah, relaxed island mode. Yep. And so breathing through the mouth is a sympathetic response. And then the inhale is a sympathetic response. The cycle that is the downshift, the parasympathetic is tied to the exhale.
29:27
So I think when people are saying take deep breath, they’re really meaning take a long, smooth exhale through your nose. That’s actually where it’s at. And the one, two breath is a one part inhale to two part exhale. So whether that’s a four count inhale through your nose and an eight count exhale through your nose. And then you can do that on repeat. Generally speaking, if everyone paused for a second and did one of those breaths, they’re going to be more relaxed. They might even be a little bit more sleepy.
29:57
Just takes one breath and then you can pile on with each breath. Relax your temples on the exhale, relax your ears on the exhale, relax your shoulders on the exhale. Like the top of your scalp, but we carry all kinds of tension and stress all over our bodies. Even within 30 seconds, you really in one breath, you can completely change the chemistry of your body.
30:25
and downshift and then look at that now you’re emotionally sober, it can make a good decision. So that is one skill of like, well, the one two breath, even just that right there, like we’re not taught that. And just now, and that’s just one style of breathing, even just bringing your mind to your breath and understanding what that does for your emotions is important. Yeah, the mindset is key. And again, what we give that consciousness to is what we’re going to, we’re putting fuel on a fire so we can either feed the things that are positive, or again, we can
30:54
catastrophize everything that happens and then go into this kind of victim mentality, which keeps us stunted and it keeps us continually in this loop where nothing’s good enough. Nobody loves me. I’m a failure in all these capacities. And again, that’s a tipping point, right? That could be the tip of depression. That could be the tip of anger and all these things, again, accumulate from the minutiae of day to day or the micro traumas that accumulate.
31:23
And it’s a war of attrition many times. And just like the point you made, it’s the same thing with veterans. We’re finding 22 is the standard number that they’re talking about, that veterans are, 22 veterans commit suicide daily. And that’s much more than what people that are dying in combat is. Yeah. And man, I’m like trying not to get pissed off about it, because there’s simple things that we can be doing from the very beginning to teach that. Why are we not doing that? And so…
31:48
I talked about earlier, you take a human being that applies for a law enforcement job, and that usually is like a nine month process and it’s kind of stressful. You go through oral panel interviews, you go through background interviews, you take a polygraph. These are all things that are freaking you out. And then you finally get a job and you get, you know, in an academy, you figure out how to put on your uniform, where does my button go, and like how do I put my belt together and where do I stand? What time do I get there? Like how do I, do I scream at everybody?
32:15
And some people, it’s the first time they’ve really been yelled at in their life. You know, they might not have played sports, you know, which it happens, you know, like, yeah. And then you have like all this stuff to memorize these speeches, to memorize. And you have like homework to do. It’s a very stressful environment. And then you have on top of that, you have the physical fitness component of it, getting yelled at and doing pushups and the exercises and the runs. And, and then you take that human being, then they have to rush home in traffic. And
32:44
that can be stressful or trying to hurry. They gotta get the dry cleaners. And then they haven’t even gotten into the stress of the family life yet. Everyone has their own family situation. They could be home with kids and they’re stressing out. What do I study? Do I spend time with my kids? Or like, how do I navigate all that? Shush, shush, shush. And then you gotta set the alarm, and the alarm cranks you up. And then you’re rushing to get ready. And do I have everything? And then you’re in traffic and you’re there. So the cycle keeps going. And then eventually you get to the police department and then it’s stressful again.
33:14
Again, like go to your locker, like, where do I stand? What time should I be in a locker room? Do I talk to people? Am I allowed to make eye contact with the senior officers? Like the social stress, right? And then I’m getting evaluated. I’m getting graded on everything I do. And then I’m trying to figure out how to, how do I drive this police car with all these gadgets and gizmos and pay attention to the computer, the radio, listening to the dispatch and understanding where all the officers are. And then how do I even get to the location I’m being sent to? How fast do I drive? What’s the crime?
33:41
What things do I have to ask? Like, do I have resources? Who’s available? All these things are happening and you’re getting graded on it all. It’s stressful. And the thing is that human being still hasn’t even gotten into the stress and trauma of the calls. Right. That’s just the background that’s going on. That’s like the organizational stress. Yeah. It’s like, has nothing to do with the physicality, the training, the tactics that you have to learn. And again, what you’re describing.
34:07
90% of what you’re learning, especially in the academy, is paperwork, semantics, protocols, but that 10% that literally can save yours or somebody else’s life, I mean, there’s not a whole lot of time for that. Well, then on top of that, obviously, you’re learning how to drive. Again, you go through driving training, you go through defensive tactics, you go through shooting, the shotguns, the rifles, the movement training, all of it. It’s a lot. And then you deal with the worst parts of human behavior.
34:36
And then you do that day in and day out and we’ll get into that part. So you have the field training program, then you’re on probation for a year. You’re still really a new officer trying to figure out how to do the job. And then you’re launched into this like cycle of dealing with everyone’s problems. And then you do that for years and years and years. And at no point in time has anyone taught you how to cope with this stuff or even have the awareness of it. So in my opinion, these emotional resilience or these, uh,
35:05
tactical mindfulness needs to be taught and be part of the culture in the very beginning like Repeated in Academy and not just the Academy but needs to start there You mean the culture needs to start in the very beginning and same thing with boot camps It’s not a soft thing like yours. You need to have stress inoculation You need to yell and people need to be put under pressure and that pressure is nothing cuz you know You’re not gonna hit or hurt. You know, it’s not like you’re just getting yelled at. You know, it’s just
35:34
You got to test, okay? But still, talk to skill set. Because fast forward, look what’s happening. Look at all the injuries and the poor, even you can go back to like some of the poor stress management and I guarantee we can find some bad shootings, some bad decisions, some bad uses of forces that tie back into did that human being have the skill set to deal with the stress and trauma of that position?
36:03
And do they have the opportunity to do that? And if they’re unaware of that, it’s impossible for them to even get there. Right. They don’t even know that there’s a problem. They just think, Oh, this is part of the job. When you talk to somebody else, they’re like, whatever, you know, I dealt with a shooting yesterday, you know, don’t come to me with your problem, boo-hooing in your beer about having a rough day or that you got into a fight with your wife or your kids are upset with you. I mean, and like you said that, that’s why when you’re talking about seeing weaknesses, strength or seeing these things.
36:29
This is the first step to unpacking those things. This is the first step to seeing that there’s an issue, as opposed to putting your fingers in your ears and acting like there’s nothing there, and you just get through the day, and then you just live for the weekend or you live for that workout. That was part one of my powerful interview with Scott McGee from the Sisu Way. You can hear part two of our interview on the next episode of Acta Non Verba. In part two, we will continue this raw and real conversation with Scott as we unpack some additional challenges that he’s faced.
36:57
and some of the ways that he found to better deal with and find the gift in his adversity. If you want to find out more about Scott McGee, please go to thesisoweigh.com to check out his incredible podcast. Scott was also gracious enough to have me as a guest on his show last year. Until next time, live a life of Acta Non Verba. Thank you for listening to this episode of Acta Non Verba.
