Actions create results. In this episode Ryan Munsey explains the science behind what holds high performers back when it comes to accomplishing their goals. During our conversation Ryan shares the truth behind consistency in day-to-day plans and why so many people struggle even after finding the right coach.
Ryan Munsey is the author of the hard-hitting book titled “F*ck Your Feelings” and the co-host of the Better Human Project Podcast. Ryan is a highly sought after thought leader who specializes in high performance and the development of both individuals and organizations.
An athlete and aspiring wilderness wizard, Ryan coaches, celebrities, Olympic athletes, professional athletes, special forces operators, leading entrepreneurs, and C-Level executives while speaking and hosting workshops around the world. His work has been featured in Forbes, Fortune Magazine, Men’s Health and Men’s Fitness.
Episode Transcript:
01:00
Ryan Muncie is the author of the hard-hitting book titled, Fuck Your Feelings, and the co-host of the Better Human Project podcast. Now, Ryan is a highly sought after thought leader who specializes in high performance and the development of both individuals and organizations. An athlete and inspiring wilderness wizard, Ryan personally coaches celebrities, Olympic athletes, professional athletes, special forces operators, leading entrepreneurs and sea level executives while speaking and hosting workshops around the world.
01:29
His work has been featured in the Forbes, Fortune magazine, men’s health and men’s fitness. Now, I’ve always said that emotions assassinate the truth, but I believe that Ryan’s concept of fuck your feelings captures this brutally and brilliantly while wakens reader out of their slumber of mediocrity. This idea is perfectly aligned with the ethos of Acta Non Verba of a Ryan. That was a long intro, but thank you for indulging me. How are you doing, my friend? It’s great to talk to you. I’m doing well, Marcus. Thank you so much for having me, man. Anytime.
01:59
somebody gives me an intro like that, I always make a joke that it’s all downhill from here. But I need to stop doing that. I need to own that and step into that intro. So, man, I love what you said about emotions assassinate the truth. That’s, I like that phrasing of it as well. It’s so true because when we’re in the heat of it, we’re in the face of adversity or anything, those emotions are the first thing we feel. And you brilliantly describe this with the
02:28
innovations in the book, but it’s so true. And we understand all these things conceptually. And philosophically, we may have these phrases in our minds, but when we’re in it, when we’re in the heat of it, in the fray, it often abandons us or it’s hard for us to follow through. And that’s when we need to have, again, this that mantra that you have that fuck your feelings. It’s like, it doesn’t really matter. Do you truly want to get to this place? Because this is the litmus test to see how much you really want it.
02:58
that never stopped asking why. Right? Like, we all know, like the kids, it’s like, but why? The sky’s blue, but why? And it just keeps going down that road. And, you know, my background is in nutrition and then fitness, you know, as you mentioned, kind of in the intro, I used to own a gym. For the better part of 10 years, you know, I was working with people on, you know, health and wellness and nutrition and strength, weight loss goals. And
03:27
You know, early on, I think like most people who get into those pursuits, we get very obsessed with or infatuated with the X’s and O’s and you know, how cool can we make the training and that could be a whole other conversation of coming back to, I love that quote from Bruce Lee, you know, at the first level of punch is just a punch, at the second level, you know, you think a punch is, you know, whatever and then the third level is a punch is still just a punch.
03:55
It’s like in the strength world, you could say the exact same thing about kettlebells, about squats, about bodyweight training, all those things. And so I think as a coach and as a fitness professional, I went through that. And then when I got to that level of, okay, the tools are just tools. What’s really going on here? And I started having people come in on Monday and they’re like, well, how many burpees do I have to do to undo what I did over the weekend? Nobody actually said burpees. But you know exactly what I’m talking about.
04:25
nodding your head, laughing. And I think everybody listening understands this. And that’s really where the seed for the book came from. I wanted to know why people’s actions weren’t congruent with the goals that they told me, that they come to me to achieve. I can give you the perfect diet. I can give you the perfect workout plan. I can give you a business plan. I can tell you what needs to be done.
04:53
But at the end of the day, you’ve got to do it. And this continues to show up in all the coaching that I do and all the work that we do. Before we hit record, you were talking about, you got to do a presumably a Zoom meeting with like you spoke to 300 people this morning, which is phenomenal. And it doesn’t matter how big, how small the group is, what it is, we can all, it’s, and again, I hate to speak in parables or idioms, but you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink. And it’s like,
05:21
give them the plan, but ultimately they have to do it. And so for me, it was just years of frustration of, you know, okay, why are we not sticking to this? Why are we not following through and what is going on? And so, you know, from about, I guess, 2015, as I transitioned out of the gym through the end of 2017, when I finished writing the book, I had the opportunity to work with and talk to.
05:49
individuals who are incredibly high performers, all the demographics that you hear in the bio at the top of the podcast, right? And at the same time, I’m interviewing researchers and cognitive behavioralists and all these people that understand the theory and are diving into neuroscience and what’s going on in the brain. And then you have these high performers who are doing the things. And the book was really just a way to overlay and kind of synthesize the theory and the application of this.
06:18
for anybody who has listened to the podcasts that I’ve hosted, I always want to be respectful of people’s time. And if you’re investing that time in whether it’s a social media post, an email blast, a podcast, I want you to walk away from that with something that you can put into action. And so, I couldn’t very well write a book and not provide action steps. And so, the first half is kind of understanding what’s going on.
06:45
a user’s manual, if you will, for being a human. And then the rest is sort of, okay, here’s what you do with this information so that you can be captain of your soul, master of your ship, and live the life that you want to live by design instead of letting that limbic system or unconscious belief system and patterns drive you without your consent.
07:08
Yeah, and you do it so beautifully and it overlaps well because like you say, there’s going to be people that some of the book is really going to hit them because of the power and the pragmatic component to it. But other people need to hear, like you say, the why. Why? Well, why is the limbic system so important? Why is this part of the brain, you know, why is this new, so to speak, compared to everything else? And I think that this answers almost all the questions that people have. And like you say, when I was teaching martial arts, when I was doing coaching in person for a physical component, so many people would…
07:38
They would want to, like you say, it’s almost like they were trying to figure out what’s the least amount that they needed to do to get away with something as opposed to how much do they really need to pour into themselves for that true fulfillment because they do want something, but it comes down to, again, are they willing to do the work consistently, which is what you point out. And then I also think it’s brilliant because in this entrepreneurial space, especially young entrepreneurs, it’s about grind, team no sleep, hashtag, right, and they want to push.
08:07
But they don’t understand that that is not sustainable long term. And if you want to do this long term, which unless you’re trying to, you know, create something and pump it up to 20 million and then sell it, then this will be a long game. And so you make these great comments about, you know, moving the chain, making something that even if you’re at 75% of your capacity, if you can do that consistently, you’re going to get a lot further. That’s a much better ROI. I talk about, you know, laying up bricks, the whole LaoZoo mentality of
08:37
I’m not trying to build a wall. I just want to lay this one brick perfectly. And that could be a burpee, it could be a kettlebell swing, it could be a run, it could be a presence of conversation, but that quality goes over in everything that we do. And if we’re willing to truly commit to that, that becomes sort of our default settings. So the way that you describe it in the book is tremendous. And I got the physical book and then I listened to the book because I love having, being able to hear the voice, but then being able to go through and I’m like, this is what he’s talking about. Okay, now I have it here.
09:05
And then like you said, with Evernote, then you just, bam, it’s everywhere you need it. So it’s powerful. You know, I think that’s one of my favorite, I guess you can call that a compliment, but I get a lot of people that will either buy the book through my website, or just reach out and they’ll say exactly that, that they have consumed it both in audio form and have the paperback. And I mean, when I wrote this thing, I was like, man, I hope somebody reads this book and to have people writing in and say, you know, that they’re…
09:32
Consuming it on, you know, multiple platforms and multiple times. That means the world to me now But but I can honestly say that it’s not it didn’t happen without intention, you know And that’s something else that you said before you hit record, right? It was you had certain intentions with a lot of the work that you do and as I was putting the book together. I was Thinking about reflecting on a lot of the books that have had the biggest impact on me the books that I go back to The ones that never really make it to the bookshelf
10:01
You know, the ones that are, you know, they’re sitting out somewhere because I pull them out and look at them often. And it’s funny you mentioned Lao Tzu. I’ve got copies of Dao De Jing everywhere. And it’s probably the most gifted book that I’ve gifted. I give that to everybody. And we mentioned Scott McGee. I actually gave him a copy of that. Oh, brilliant. And so that’s what I wanted. I wanted to create something that was timeless and that people could refer back to and kind of use.
10:29
as a guide the way I had with other books. And so to hear that, it just, it means everything to me. On the same way that my grandfather named me Marcus Aurelius, so that’s an impossible name to live up to, right? But what it does is as a 12 year old boy, you start getting this curiosity about who is this guy, this Marcus Aurelius guy. And I got meditations on my 12th birthday because I was given a gift certificate to get something. And it just went over my head. To me, these thus thoueth blah, blah, blah, blah. And
10:58
I was kind of upset because who is this guy? And I don’t even like what he writes and I’m named after him. But what I did was I went back to the bookstore and I didn’t understand. I just thought, oh, he wrote a bunch of these books. He’s like, no, this wasn’t even supposed to be published. This was literally just his journal, his reflections, his meditations. But what I did was I was walking away pissed off. And as I’m walking down the philosophy section, there’s a book that’s faced out and it has this beautiful Chinese calligraphy. And I was like, hmm. And I’ve been doing martial arts since I was 11.
11:27
So there was the connection. I grabbed the book, I opened it up, and it was a statement that said, if you continue to sharpen your knife, it goes blunt. And even at 12, I was like, okay, that makes sense. That makes sense. I get it. And that was my gateway to understanding, not just philosophy, but then to get into stoicism and Zen and Buddhism and, you know, all the Greek classical kind of ideas of logic.
11:53
That’s why it’s so beautiful to me that you were mentioning that book specifically. Since we’re talking about them, what other books really pop out for you? And so this one will be like way outside the realm of what we do. But I love it. I love it. You know, like I said, my background is in nutrition. My degree is actually food science and nutrition. So I’m a food nerd. And one of the first books that was really, really a resource for me is Johnny Bowden’s 150 healthiest foods on earth.
12:22
I don’t know when that book came out, but I got my copy of it while I was still in college. So I would have gotten it in 2006, 2007, something like that. And then it went with me to New York when I left college. And my apartment in New York was on the 10th floor, no air conditioning, brutally hot. That’s my worst summer ever. But that’s only relevant because I would keep the windows open. And that book sat on the windowsill. And one time we just had this huge downpour and it got…
12:52
soaked and seeing how any book dries out and it gets all warped and pages are all mangled. And it was funny, I saw him at a conference, it would have been 2016, maybe year 17. And I was telling him that story and he was like, man, I got another copy. There was a second edition and he had it with him and he signed it and he gave me a brand new copy of it. Wow. So really cool, dude. But just the way that book was put together…
13:18
And if anybody has seen the book, you know what I’m talking about. But it is a book that you could read cover to cover. But more than anything, it’s a book that you can pick up, flip to any page, and you can learn about a specific food. If you want to look a food up, you can do that. So it’s just a great resource. And as I was getting into nutrition, I always make this joke that I learned more about nutrition in my own self-guided study than I did in college coursework.
13:45
And anybody who knows what you’re taught in a dietetics program knows that it’s appalling. And that’s exactly why I’m not an RD. I was not going to pay to be a part of that. Let’s just call it a group so that we don’t get in trouble. I just didn’t want to be a part of that. So to this day, if I meet somebody that’s an RD, I’m a little bit leery because I know what they have to do to get that. And I know what they have to do to protect and keep that designation. So that book was huge for me. And just knowing how much I went back to that.
14:14
wanted something along those lines. Now the layout is nothing like that, you know, that particular book. But that was one. We mentioned Dao De Jing. I mean, those were kind of the two biggest in terms of, you know, thinking about something that I go back to. But it was more of trying to create that as a resource, not necessarily copying the layout, if that makes sense.
14:42
specific making it something that people can take value from. And I think timeless was a word that I used in the first description that especially with the book like 150 healthiest foods, I mean, think back to 2008, like it’d be really hard to write a book about food in 2008. That in 2018 is still accurate, relevant and cutting edge right and so I’m really impressed with the way that he did that and you know I think you have to be very and even
15:12
obviously with Lao Tzu, write something that long ago. And I’m not sure which translation you’ve read, but my favorite is Stephen Mitchell translation. That was the one. Yeah. And to write something that long ago that is so… I mean, it just stands the test of time. And it’s so universally applicable. And that was something that I tried to keep in mind as I kind of put all the pieces together. Yeah. And I…
15:41
For me, that book, Lao Tzu’s book, Thick Face Black Heart, I’m sure you’ve heard of it at least, or probably, you’ve probably digested it and read it many times. And then The War of Art by- Oh, yeah. Pressfield, I mean, come on, if you don’t wanna write, you read that book and you’re like, damn it. Okay, I’m gonna write. I will read anything Pressfield writes for the rest of my life. I agree. From Gates of Fire on, yeah. That dude, have you read his newest, The Artist Journey? I have not, I bought it.
16:11
I have not got to it yet. I think it’s his best one so far. Well, okay, so I’m going to have to stop what I’m doing and get to that guy. I mean, Turning Pro was… And do the work was amazing too, yeah. Yeah, those have a way of just, you know, like you said, when you need to say, fuck your feelings and get some shit done. Like, those are great kind of kick in the butt. I think the artist’s journey is an exploration of that.
16:36
moment, right? Like, why do we procrastinate? Why is this so difficult? What is it that we’re trying to do? And he does such a fantastic job of articulating, Yes, so eloquently. the work that has to be done. And so I’m sure you’re familiar with the hero’s journey. And so he makes the argument that, you know, the artist’s journey is what we do after the hero’s journey. And that every single day, I won’t spoil it for you. But the gist of it is that the artist’s job is to, you know,
17:05
connect to a higher realm, bring these things back and turn them into something useful. That requires multiple heroes’ journeys every single day. It resonated with me. I just love, I mean, you know if you’ve read his stuff, his ability to articulate things in very frank language. I appreciate that. That’s what I love about it because he has that laconic right to the point and then he can eloquently evoke your emotion.
17:35
within that and then punch you in the face and kick you in the ass. You’re like, okay. Yeah, he’s right. He’s right there. He’s on my shoulder. I’m going to get to work and I have to get it done. And there’s so many different parts of this book that I love that of yours, but touching on some of these things, was there a specific sort of philosophy that really impacted you? I mean, I say adversity is a gift when I don’t want to do something, but your idea of fuck your feelings, again, it’s very much about keeping us on that straight and narrow.
18:05
Was there sort of an inspiration for that or was that just something that came to you sort of in the heat of it, I guess? I will say that it is definitely something that I have said to myself. I can’t say that my mom has ever said it, but it’s very much something that my mom would say or do. She was always, growing up, she was always the one, like, it’s funny, we’ll be watching TV and I’ll hear like sayings or different things. And I’m like, man.
18:33
My mom used to say that, or mom said that. And she, both of her parents were immigrants and very hardworking people. Her dad, my grandfather was in the military. And so he was just, you gotta think like, he’s an immigrant and a military man and just, it was his way. You were getting the power hand too, right? Yeah. Get it done. And so she was very much that way too. And I think it’s just a…
19:01
And somebody asked me years ago or, I don’t know, time kind of runs together now. But in an interview, they asked me like what I learned from her and it was really just hard work and sacrifice. And I won’t go into all the things that she did that led to that. And from my dad, that I learned that what it meant to be a man, to provide, to show up, to no matter how you feel. If my car broke down and I was 18, I know I could call him.
19:30
he’s there, right? Or if I’m at college and something’s wrong, I can call him and he’s, you know, whatever I needed, right? And so as parents, you know, they really taught me a lot of those like fundamental lessons, some by word, most by action, fitting with your intro. And I think it was, and as I wrote about in the book, you know, that that Seelfit experience in 2012 was, was very pivotal for me because
19:57
I think that was, as I talked about in the book, it really was that line in the sand moment where it was like, okay, it’s time to grow up. It’s time to, nobody’s going to bail you out. Nobody’s coming. It’s all you. Learn to take responsibility. And once I made that transition, it became very easy as a coach. So that year was the year I started my business.
20:21
I would have to say that as I made that transition, I became an exponentially better coach because I could recognize in other people where they were on that journey. Like I said at the top of this conversation, the more time went by, the more I became frustrated with others who, not frustrated with, but frustrated for or seeing like, okay, here’s a person that wants this thing. They say they want it, but they’re not doing what they know they need to do.
20:51
your feelings. Do what you’re supposed to do when you’re supposed to do it, regardless of how you feel.” And it was something that kept coming up over and over with the people that I would classify or consider as high performers. And then I think it was really cemented by the research from Antonio Damasio. And that was actually… I came across that for a keynote talk that I did at the Biohacker Summit in Sweden.
21:20
in the spring of 2017. And at that point, the book was like, you know, a twinkle in my eye. It wasn’t even like an idea or it wasn’t even like I wasn’t really considering writing a book. And so one of the other speakers at that event is an author and had a book deal and had a book coming out and he came up to me afterwards. He was like, that was the best talk here. You need to do something with this. And so on that flight home long like nine hour flight, I just outlined what
21:49
was the first draft of the book. But that talk was really states versus traits. It was the explanation of that 95% of our decisions are made based on how we feel. And like I said, that’s the statistic that’s submitted, you know, fuck your feelings. And so, you know, that whole talk was kind of exploring that and kind of what became the thesis for the book. There’s so much in the book. And if you’re listening to us and you haven’t read the book, you have to grab it or listen to the audible or get both if like I am.
22:20
There’s a lot of research that happens and a lot of people don’t understand, like you say, when you’re creating a book, again, we can have ideas, but then we have to unpack this and we have to check this and we had to track this down and make sure that this is correct. And where did I find that? And is this what it is? What was something that you learned that surprised you when you were doing the research for the book? What was an assumption that you had or something that you thought to be true that ended up not being what you thought it was going to be? Yeah. So I’m laughing because, you know, I’m…
22:49
trained as a scientist. I wrote more lab reports in college and high school than I care to admit. So I had it just drilled into me. Like, you know, if you’re going to say something, you have to be able to back it up. But you know, I’m also aware, like, hey, I’m, I don’t want to say I’m a nobody, but like, you know, I’m not a neuroscientist. I’m not an academic, you know, I’m piecing all this stuff together and I’m, you know, positing these kind of bold statements. So I need to be able to back it up. So, you know, I made sure anything that I…
23:19
felt like I wanted to say that I did the research from several different angles to make sure that I could say that or that it was in fact accurate. It’s been so long. I don’t remember anything that I thought was true that ended up not being true. I think what stands out to me with all the research is I remember being
23:49
how much things started to overlap as I went deeper and deeper into the research. The more you looked into the research of the brain, you have guys like Dr. Steven Porches, who is the person who discovered heart rate variability. His research is on polyvagal theory. He’s positing that this 10th cranial nerve has a hierarchy of responses. The base level of that would be immobilization.
24:19
The second level is fight or flight, which is sympathetic. And then the highest level or the third would be the parasympathetic or more like evolved neo-prefrontal cortex. And that’s language and communication. Like how can we talk our way out of this problem? Diplomacy or tact, if you want to make it like geopolitical. But that ended up aligning almost perfectly with guys like McLean’s triune brain theory.
24:49
people like Dawkins and Darwin, right? So even Charles Darwin is making notes about how they feel like emotion and feelings have survived evolution because they serve an advantage. And then I’m interviewing a neuroscientist at Cornell and he’s saying that, you know, the exact same thing. And then you start looking at like all the innervations of the 10th cranial nerve and you find out that they line up perfectly with all the acupressure, like energy vortices.
25:16
And those happened to wind up almost perfectly with all the chakras and yoga. And you’re like, and what was really amazing to me is maybe amazing isn’t the word there, but I’ve always said success leaves footprints. And I’ve always tried to get people to look at the similarities rather than the differences. And so, you know, somebody comes to me, let’s we’ll use fitness again, because that was my background part of this.
25:41
they’re like, oh, well, what’s better? You know, should we do crossfit or should we do powerlifting or should we do strongman? And I’m like, if we take that same like success leaves footprints, right? What are the similarities between all these things, right? Like you’ve got progressive overload, you’ve got strength, they all squat, different variations, but they all squat. They all do this, they all, and if you look at like all the things that they have in common, they have a lot more in common than they have differences. And if you, I don’t care what…
26:08
style or what approach to fitness you take, if you do those things that all those disciplines have in common, you’re probably going to end up being a pretty well-rounded, pretty fit person. And I just felt like taking that approach, just that’s kind of the way my mind works, but by not labeling things and just putting all those things in the book that all those places and things disciplines have in common.
26:36
as you mentioned earlier, I think no matter where you’re coming from when you read this book, you see things that can be of benefit and be helpful. And that’s actually, that was part of that plan to kind of be timeless and a resource. And it’s been amazing to see the application of that. I’ve had people from addiction treatment centers reach out and say, hey, this is perfect for addiction treatment, whether it’s getting over alcoholism or even porn addiction places have reached out to me.
27:06
because of like dopamine and behaviors and limbic system and all this. I’ve had law enforcement, SWAT, fire, military, first responders and people who are kind of redliners, all those groups have reached out. I’ve had teachers groups reach out, colleges and there was a leadership class at a college that used this as their textbook. It’s been amazing.
27:36
that if we can kind of strip labels off of things and put all that synthesized information there that people can get to the information without a bias that is associated with some external label. Yeah, I very much try to be a philosophical atheist as best I can. I try to absorb truth irrespective of source without judgment, without any… It’s tough sometimes. There’s so much dogma attached to everything from nutrition to martial arts to philosophical compounds.
28:05
And people want to do that because they want to be associated with this thing that is this truism and the closer they can get to that by association, the more validity I believe that they feel. But I love Bruce Lee’s concept of the most eloquent way that he said it was, I absorb what is useful, I discard what is useless and I have it specifically my own. But his original statement was somebody asked him, they said, what is the best punch? He’s like, I use whatever works nice to you from wherever I can find it. So he had no qualms. He’s like, does it work? I’ll use it. It doesn’t work. I throw it out.
28:34
And that to me is what philosophy is. I mean, you can talk about semantics, about labeling, but a philosophy is only useful as it is pragmatic. And if it empowers you and doesn’t attach dogma or shackle you in some capacity, then that’s what we need. And by doing so, it’s very liberating. And just like you’re saying, to me, these overlapping truths at the higher levels, they’re all very similar. So instead of, like you said, instead of trying to split hairs about, well, according to this, when this was said or this was done or this…
29:04
Interpretation or this translation that’s been translated 75 other times prior to this, of course, it’s impossible for us to know However, we can get the gist we can get the residue we can understand what the initial Hopefully what that intention is and by having that that gives us a better idea not only into the mind of the person that created that but into the movement that they were trying to get across to all of us and It’s not always easy. But if we can do that in all these capacities, I think that serves us best. Yeah
29:33
Absolutely. And I think just going back to what we’re talking about with Pressfield, I mean, that’s what I think Pressfield articulates and captures so well in the artist’s journey. So I can’t wait for you to read that. When we have you on Better Human Project, we’ll talk about that. I’ll have it read by then and we’ll be squared away, ready to go on all that. That was part one of my interview with Ryan Muncie, author of Fuck Your Feelings. You can hear part two of the interview on the next episode of Acta Non Verba.
30:00
where we continue the discussion and talk about the need for identifying priorities that will help you move the chains every day. Ryan also tells of how a tragedy early in his life had a tremendous impact on him and how he was able to find the gift in that adversity. You can find out more about Ryan Muncie at RyanMuncie.com. Until next time, live a life of Acta Non Verba. Thank you for listening to this episode of Acta Non Verba.
