Today on Acta Non Verba Rich Diviney returns to discuss how much human beings truly control and how that impacts our ability to overcome Adversity and lead others. During our conversation Rich and I dig into the difference between being reactive and proactive, how to ask the right questions, and what it means to practice resilience in everyday life. We also discuss the difference between a leader and a person in charge, as well as how to hold yourself accountable for the decisions you make.
Rich Diviney draws upon 20+ years of experience as a Navy SEAL Officer where he completed more than 13 overseas deployments – 11 of which were to Iraq and Afghanistan. Through his career, he has achieved multiple leadership positions – to include the Commanding Officer of a Navy SEAL Command.
Since retirement in early 2017, Rich has worked as a speaker, facilitator, and consultant with the Chapman & Co. Leadership Institute and Simon Sinek Inc.
You can learn more about Rich and his work here: https://theattributes.com/
Episode Transcript:
00:02
Dr. Nonverba is a show that’s raw and real, featuring hard-hitting interviews with people that live by the ethos of actions, not words. Marcus Aurelius Anderson is a TEDx speaker, best-selling author, veteran, and leadership and mindset coach. With this show, you get to join Marcus as he goes inside the minds and experiences of the world’s most successful warriors, leaders, entrepreneurs, and experts. With each episode, you’re going to get the philosophies, concepts, tactics, and strategies these leaders use
00:32
turn adversity into victory. Live an extraordinary life based on actions, not words. Now, here’s your host, Marcus Aurelius Anderson. In this episode of Octonon Verba, we hear part two of my interview with Rish De Vinny, a retired Navy SEAL with over 20 years of experience as an officer. He is also a speaker, facilitator, consultant, and author of the book,
00:59
the attributes 25 hidden drivers of optimal performance. In part one, Rich shared how his experience as a Navy SEALs officer showed him the power of leaning into your inherent abilities in order to overcome adversity. Rich and I also explored the definition of grit and how to use it as a tool for success, how to find your own level of optimal performance, and why the capacity to pivot is essential for facing uncertain situations.
01:29
You can hear part one on episode 44 of Acta Non Verba. In part two, Rich discusses how much human beings truly control and how that impacts our ability to overcome adversity and lead others. We also discuss the difference between being reactive and proactive, how to ask the right questions, what it means to practice resilience in everyday life, the difference between being a leader and just a person that’s in charge.
01:56
and how to hold yourself accountable for the decisions that you make. And now part two of my interview with the incredible Rich DaVini. Could you tell me about the tattoo on your forearm, what it says? That’s an old Japanese kanji. I’m a huge fan of Akito, the martial art. I’m a fan of the founder, Morihei Ueshiba, fascinating individual and I’ve read many books about his life. I actually walk around with a small copy of what’s called the art of peace. It’s a series of what his sayings.
02:24
His whole philosophy was be like water. And it’s almost like an uber adaptable. If you can mold and shape with your environment, you actually join the energy around you. I just love that concept. He used to put on his dojo wall, the universe and IR-1. That’s what my tattoo says. It’s the universe and IR-1. Because he used to put it on his dojo wall. And it serves as a reminder to me to know that we’re all, this is all connected, right? We’re all…
02:49
everything’s all connected, we’re all energetically at least bound. And we can kind of think through that way. But it’s also, I mean, when you start thinking about even negotiation, or conflict resolution, and if you start approaching it with kind of an Akito philosophy, you can start saying, okay, how can I move with this opponent in a way that helps or even dissipates the problem, but we both come out in a good space, right? So I think it’s more about movements and synergy. And that’s why I love it. And it’s about blend.
03:19
It’s so true. I took Aikido, the Hombu Chisuto style, which was from Satomi, which came from Morie Ueshiba from Japan. And that whole concept of, you know, I don’t win, I let my opponent lose. I lead them to the trap and they fall in it. And that notion that this person is much stronger than I am. So in a lot of ways, that’s what I did when I was injured. I had this diversity of paralysis and anger and suicidal thoughts, which I couldn’t even act on. But yet, resisting it again wasn’t helping me.
03:46
Yeah, yeah. Just making me angry. I’m like, I’ve done everything else. This adversity, this adversary is pushing me this direction. If I can land just for a second, just move just offline, just enough to create space, there’s my opportunity. Yeah. And within that space, I was able to find true gratitude, genuine empathy, pragmatic capacity to put these things into play. And instead of trying to get to this place where, Oh, I hope I can walk again. I just went to the place where I was like, I’m just grateful. Nobody else got hurt. And that for me was the first like,
04:15
real genuine 360 gratitude and that was the foundation and that was the cornerstone and then I was happy for the bed and the people that took care of me and then slowly things, I was able to build that. But until I had that belief, until I blended with it, I was just gonna be a very angry veteran who was pissed off at everybody that locked in the room. Yeah, and it kind of reminds me of something we talked about before we hit the record button, right? And so you need that emotion is a very powerful thing, right? And it’s oftentimes hard to think through.
04:43
logically and this has been neurologically proven if you’re if you’re highly emotive it’s hard to think logically and blending allows someone to begin to do that because it allows you to start to feel and blend with kind of like you that you allowed that in which changed your emotions about it which allowed you to a different perspective which is yeah it’s really powerful it is and sometimes it takes three or four months of being paralyzed to to make you get to that place because you have no other choice you have to be stuck in there and you have to it may be unpack everything from
05:12
my parents divorced to my own divorce to I was in that victim place. I was, I’m a good person. Why did this happen to me? And I’m doing this for the right reasons. And you have to take that emotion out of it and just say, and what happens when the emotion is there? We have a motive language. What has happened to me? You know, I’m a good person. It’s like, no, no, no, this is the data as we talked about before we hit record. This data is you’re here in this bed. What are you going to do now? Yeah. Yeah. And it’s about, you know, so I talk about the power of questions because I believe that the quality of our lives.
05:40
is directly proportional with the quality of questions we consistently ask ourselves. You know, we, our brains are designed to answer questions unconsciously most of the time, right? But even if we lodge a question into our frontal lobe, into our conscious mind, our brain will begin to come up with answers. And I do this experiment with classes I teach. I say, just answer this question. How could you double your income in the next six months? I just say, write down as many things that pop into your head over the next 30 seconds. Usually you get people write down four or five, six things. It doesn’t really matter how ridiculous they are. They just do it. I say, okay, how many things did you come up with?
06:09
Well, it’s because you lodged a question. Okay, as soon as you lodge a question, your brain automatically begins to answer that question. The problem is most of us do this incorrectly. We say things like, why does this always happen to me? Why am I so bad at this? Why are they out to get me? Your brain’s going to answer that question and those answers aren’t gonna be very empowering. Versus change the framing, ask better questions. How can I grow from this? What are some things I’m good at? Who’s out there who can help me? It does two things. First of all, it accesses your neurology.
06:37
the natural neurology that’s accessible to all of us. All right, that’s number one. The second thing it does is it allows us to take control. Human beings like certainty. For as much uncertainty as there is in our world, the reason why our brains are constantly asking questions because we want to be certain, right? Human beings like certainty. As soon as you decide to take control and not be the victim, okay, hey, I am not the victim, I am in control. This happened because of this or how am I taking control? Just how am I responsible, whatever? What can I do in this moment?
07:07
you begin the process of taking control versus being the victim. And victimization in most cases is not, and again, there’s people who have trauma that they’re truly victims, right? So I want to respect and honor the fact that this process is, is really about practicing in the smaller moments. If you have big moments, you get some help and you know, it’s a big deal. It’s not as easy as, as it sounds, especially when I talk about the little tragedies in the book, you know, those little tragedies we experienced every day.
07:34
where we can practice resilience and we can practice this idea of asking better questions. This is the spilled milk. This is the traffic jam. This is the spat with the loved one. Um, the fight with a teenager or whatever it might be, the bad day at work, practice resilience and practice this taking control and this active and empowering questioning so that it’s accessible to you when the big stuff happens, you know, and it’s not as easy, which is important.
07:58
I call them microadversities, like you said, whether it be from the physicality or emotional or financial, whatever it is, but by doing that, and again, it doesn’t necessarily replace a true life-changing event, but at least it gives you a fighting chance when that adrenaline dumps into you as opposed to being completely alien to it. And then when it hits you again, it catches you sideways. And now you’re going through this middle drop-down menu of why is this happening to me? We don’t have time. You need to act, whatever it is, even if it’s in the wrong direction.
08:24
My squad leader told me, he said, I would rather you hit that door as the number one man and be wrong, go the wrong direction entirely than to be stuck there and have everybody get hit with an AK or a, you know, it just made so much sense to me. And in life, it’s the same way. He’s like hesitation is what will kill everybody, whether it be your dreams, your business, your team or your relationships. It’s really about making a decision. And I talk about that in the decisiveness chapter in terms of, Hey, the best thing someone can do is the correct thing.
08:51
the next best thing they can do is the incorrect thing. The worst thing they can do is nothing. Okay. But what he was talking about wasn’t actually necessarily the doing part. It was actually making a decision. Because making a decision is the action. Okay. Because sometimes the decision is to stay still, right? Sometimes the decision is to not move, is to pause. Okay. And that’s perfectly okay. The act is to decide. Okay. In the case of, you know, what you’re talking about, which is…
09:18
close quarter combat and you’re going through the fatal funnel, which is the door, you better be moving. Deciding to do nothing is not a good decision. But there are some cases where deciding to do nothing isn’t actually appropriate. I’m going to stop on the pause on the wait, I’m going to gather more information that that’s a decision versus not making a decision, right. So the decision is the action, whatever that decision might be. Yeah. And some people think that, like you said, the decision has to be action, but that mental checklist is sometimes what we have to do. And again, we have to have that ingrained within us like breathing.
09:45
before we get into the heat of it because we don’t have that luxury. Again, time is not something that we had the luxury of in a lot of life, whether it be business, self-defense, close quarter combat, whatever it is. And understanding that now, nothing breeds confidence like preparation. So we have to have that instilled in us. That’s why I love the book. I also love it because as a leader, as a CEO, as an executive, they can go through and look at these things and say, of these I’m pretty good at, but this area of leadership, I may not be. And you make a great point. You talked about it on…
10:14
LinkedIn and Instagram where you say that you’re not a great leader. Somebody has to tell you that you are a leader or that you’re a great leader. Tell us a little bit about you work with with Simon Sinek as well. Correct. Yeah. Good friend. Yeah. So I work with Simon, still do some work with Simon. I worked with Ferry Weymiller folks, which is Bob Chapman, who Simon talks about and their leadership Institute, wonderful people. They really helped me reframe my optic on leadership and I guess look objectively at it after coming out of the military, but ultimately leadership.
10:43
being in charge and being a leader conflated, okay? They’re not the same thing. One’s a noun and one’s a verb. Because you can be in charge, but you don’t, you might not be a leader. You don’t get to self-designate as a leader, okay? It’s like calling yourself good-looking or funny. You don’t get to decide that. Other people- Oh man, that would explain, that would explain I keep telling people I’m good-looking and funny and nobody looks at me. I tell you. Other people decide that, right? And they decide that based on your behaviors, okay? Leadership is a behavior, it’s not a position. And those behaviors, the way you behave towards other people is-
11:13
what is going to determine whether or not they choose you as a leader. Okay. And this is what leaders need to fundamentally understand. It’s not about just because you’re in the position of leadership or position in charge, you are now the leader. Because we all know this intuitively, right? We’ve all been and you can say this in the army and the time you spent in the army, because I knew it in the SEAL teams. Yeah, you can have the commanding officer or the troop chief or the sergeant, right? And that guy’s okay. Okay, that guy’s definitely in charge based on hierarchy. But it’s that E5 actually.
11:40
If the shit went down, I’d go to him first or her first, right? We all have those people who we consider leaders and it’s because of behavior. People who want to practice leadership need to practice the behaviors that leads to people being chosen as leaders. And these attributes that I talk about are really elemental in terms of behaviors that lead towards leadership. So, and you had a great point in the book you were talking about, you would put some of these young officers in positions where they would be with a team. You would give them an order that the team didn’t really like. You would have the team.
12:10
verbally tell them that they didn’t agree with it. He would come back to you and you were saying how this was about leadership because it was about being not just authenticity, but actually just being honest. Having an intent to do that. Yeah, accountable, yeah. Could you tell a little bit about that? Yeah, I mean, accountability is one of the attributes and accountability is about, it’s fairly self-explanatory, right? Are you taking control and taking to account and taking responsibility for your actions? It’s very hard for any of us to look at someone who’s always pointing fingers.
12:39
as someone as a leader. It’s very difficult. And anybody who’s constantly saying it’s that person’s fault, it’s not my fault, it’s that person’s, it’s hard to see, right? So in the accountability chapter, I go through the story and I will go through the whole, the whole detail. But this idea is that we were able to put guys and candidates into a position where they were getting protests from the enlisted. They were getting directions by their senior officer, which was me, that were causing the protests. Okay. And to see whether or not that middleman, that officer attempted to stay
13:08
clean and stayed the middleman or actually took account and was accountable for the complaints that were happening from the illicit side or the direction that was happening from me. I mean, if we just talk about brass tacks practicality of accountability for a leader, it allows you to take control. I mean, as soon as you hold yourself accountable, as soon as you say, okay, this is my fault, why is it my fault? You immediately take control, right? And that’s a powerful thing because you can act. I’m not saying control over other people. I’m saying control over yourself.
13:38
control of your actions, control over your lessons learned, control over your growth. You can’t do that if you’re blaming someone else. Placing blame on someone else doesn’t allow you to grow because there’s nothing to grow. You’re just like, well, that’s a person’s fault. As soon as you say, this is my fault, man, suddenly we get this responsibility to say, okay, why is it my fault? What can I do better? You start automatically asking yourself better questions. So accountability at the minimum in terms of practicality allows you to take control and learn and grow from decisions, actions, environments, whatever it might be.
14:07
You talk about fear of rejection with the SEALs and how that they all had a fear of rejection. When people think of a SEAL, they think of this superhuman soldier. How could a SEAL have a fear of rejection and what does that look like? I talk about three attributes in particular that I detached from the categories in the book. And I call them the others just because they weren’t lining up the same way the categories of attributes did. In other words, pretty much all of the attributes in the categories, other than say maybe narcissism or cunning, more is better. Okay, that was the idea.
14:37
The more courageous you are, the better. The higher on the adaptability scale you are, the better. The higher on the resilience scale. For things like patience, for things like fear of rejection, and for things like competitiveness, okay, it didn’t line up that way. Because when I looked at the opposite of that, I realized that high performers were the opposite as well, right? There are super high performers and optimal performers who are both patient, and there are super high performers who are impatient. There are super high performers who have an elevated fear of rejection and…
15:04
super high performers who don’t care what people think and associates what people think. And then same with competitive, which we talked about, you know, people who are highly competitive versus people who aren’t competitive at all. So came to fear of rejection, what I realized is I said to myself, okay, here’s a bunch of guys who all of us pretty much consider ourselves average dudes. All of us came to the table with certain fears. Okay, I don’t like heights, but yet I had to jump out of airplanes thousands of times. There are certain guys who don’t like being underwater. There are other guys. I mean, none of us will say we’re not frightened when
15:33
people are shooting at us, you know, so all of us, you know, came to the table with this ability to march into fear and execute courage a little bit more than maybe say the average person. And the question I had to ask myself is why. Now, the answer to that question can be many things. But one of those things is, in fact, that none of us, you ask a SEAL, I would imagine you ask most military people, but certainly you ask a Navy SEAL what their greatest fear is. It’s not death.
16:02
Their greatest fear is letting down the guy next to them. Yes. And letting down the guy next to you or gal next to you is huge. And that speaks to a fear of rejection. You don’t want to be the person who didn’t show up, who left out, who stepped away, who quit. Okay, that speaks to a fear of rejection. It can be very, very powerful in terms of allowing you and encouraging you to do things you otherwise wouldn’t do. That’s where it becomes a really powerful.
16:27
quality now it certainly has that from it’s okay it could lead to peer pressure irresponsible behavior gang like a mafia like mentality yet there’s all those those things but yeah i would say a lot of the guys had this in a quality i i just don’t want to let this person down i’m gonna jump out of their plan to do my best because there’s no way i’m not going to do it because they’re all doing you know now let’s look at the opposite there are people we know who don’t
16:50
give a flying F what anybody thinks. And if given the choice of jumping out, I was like, yeah, I don’t need to do that. Thank you. They don’t care. Right. But this is also powerful too. This is where iconoclasts come from. You know, people who do things that otherwise are outside of the pack. Okay. It’s huge. These are the people who innovate, who, you know, I’m not saying that, you know, everybody has a chance to innovate, but you see the iconoclasts who just don’t care. And they’re, they’re just doing their own thing. They’re their own person. Right. And they, they don’t care what people think. And then suddenly, sometimes people start to follow them.
17:19
fault because they’re, Oh, look at what that person’s doing. Right. So both polarities are pretty powerful. Fear of rejection. I just, I talked about in terms of, at least in the environment we were in, it certainly helped a lot of us power through. I mean, I remember walking in some pretty gnarly combat zones and thinking to myself, man, this is like the, it’s like a beehive in terms of the enemy. I was okay. I was okay because I had a group of guys with me who I knew.
17:44
had my back, I had their back, and we were all marching in together, right? It encouraged courage. And I was going to go with them no matter what, because I was not going to be one of them, you know? And that can be a powerful, positive thing. So that evokes that warrior spirit that I think we all have once we get to a certain level and once we’re in certain environments. I’m not just saying soldiers or seals or men. You put a woman with a mama bear mentality of, again, between her and her child, you’re going to have a problem.
18:09
Yeah, absolutely. We all have that warrior capacity, that attribute within us. The cool thing about these, all these attributes are human. They have no, there’s no bias towards gender at all. Right? I mean, it’s, it’s, these are human attributes and where we fall on each of them is entirely a human thing versus a gender, race, color, creed, religion type thing. Right? And that’s, that’s cool because they’re elemental. And that’s what I’m always really fascinated with. What’s the elemental you? What’s the elemental human? And that’s, that’s cool. I agree. Rich.
18:39
We’ve talked about my story just a little bit. Can you tell us about an adversity that you went through? And it could be buzz, it could be not related to the military at all. A situation or an adversity that at the time you felt like you weren’t gonna be able to get through it, but once you were able to get through it, there was a huge gift and a huge shift in your perspective that at the time when you’re in it, you can’t really see it. Because when we’re in adversity, it’s almost impossible to put ourselves on the other side and truly be objective. Can you give us an example of that? Yeah.
19:05
Gosh, there’s so many examples of SEAL training and I lost friends, you know, combat, mistakes I made as a leader, mistakes I made as a father, as a husband, you know, so there’s so many. I think the lesson that I would draw out from that question would be that on any path, and I always try to say something that I’ve tried to live my whole life, I think I’ve gotten better at is be resolute in your outcome, but be flexible in the approach. And the reason is because, and we can learn a lot from rock climbers in this vein.
19:32
because a rock climber will stare at the face of a cliff. And I’m not even a rock climber, because I don’t like heights, so obviously I don’t climb rocks. But a rock climber will stare at the cliff or a mountain and say, okay, the top, that’s my outcome. I’m getting to the top. And then oftentimes they’ll map out or sketch out mentally a rough plan on how they might do that. Then they’ll start climbing. And as they climb, it’s gonna be about finding the best footholds and handholds. And they’re going to find inevitably that the pathway that they had mapped out or sketched originally is not gonna be the same one that they actually are using.
20:01
And sometimes they’re going to find that the best next foot holder handhold is actually like to the right and down, which means that they’re going to be moving away from their outcome, you know, to find the next best foothold. Sometimes they’re going to go into valleys inside of which they’re going to lose sight of the outcome. They’re not going to have their eyes on the peak the whole time, right? We can look at any goal this way in any goal and any pathway towards achievement, expect that there’s going to be adversity, which means.
20:29
you might feel like you’re moving away, but just know you’re finding another foothold, right? You might lose sight of the top because you’ve just been thrown or fallen into a valley, or had to climb down into a valley to get back up the other side. Just know that you have to keep moving. So I think any type of adversity is able to, okay? And sometimes, again, you need help to do this if it’s really bad stuff. But to the extent that you can, recognize how it’s assisting the pathway versus detracting from it.
20:58
because none of us are going back, right? We can’t go backwards. No. Time, right? As soon as we’re forward, as soon as we make that choice, you know, we’re in it. The next best thing you can do is say, okay, where can I go from here? And I think that’s the best lesson. Certainly lesson I’ve tried to apply when anything bad happens. Some situations have certainly been easier to do it than others, but just like you, I mean, and just like anybody, some are easily, more easily overcome, others take time. That’s it. There’s only one level of commitment, like you said, once you’re in it, and that’s total. And that reminds me of the,
21:28
full circle of the Ueshiba quote when he says, there are many paths to the top of the mountain. We don’t have to be afraid. We just have to not value our opinion of how we get there as long as we can get there. Thank you so much for your time. I wanna ask you one more question before I let you go and as you get back to the rest of your day. If there was an opportunity for you to have dinner with Morihei Ueshiba and there was a translator so you all could speak, what questions would you ask him? What is one or two things that you would like to know? I never even thought about that. That’d be awesome. Right? Yeah.
21:56
I would just ask him about his view of the universe and how does he see it. And, you know, there’s writings and other folks have tried to scribe after I’ve knowing him, but it would be interesting to get his perspective from his background, you know, because again, the other, you know, the other question I’m sometimes asked if he could have dinner with anybody, uh, library dad, who would that be? And I always usually say Carl Sagan because he actually knows the universe. That type of mind is fascinating to me. So yeah, I think I’d dive deep on.
22:22
Talk to me about the universe that you see and how you see it. And talk about how we are all connected and what your experience has been. I think that would be fascinating to hear and listen to. I’ve done martial arts since I was 11. I’ve done Aikido, Japanese arts, very hard, you know, staccato sort of arts. And as you know, Ueshiba was only like 5’2″. You read the stories where he would try to hold onto trees to elongate his body so that he could get into the military because of his lack of size. But again, that was his gift was that he was smaller. So he knew that there was no way he could go ahead.
22:51
Mono-E-Mono against somebody with like a punch. He had to stand off. He had to do Kodegaeshi or whatever movement is to get away from it. And then when you put a sword or a Tantou blade in their hand, he’s like, there’s no way that this is going to work for me. What can I do? And it came from that ability to be firm and then be soft or be soft and then be firm and then adapt to what that energy is. So by fighting it, it doesn’t make it possible, but by blending with it, now we double the opponent’s energy and we use it against them.
23:19
if we’re patient enough and humble enough to learn the lesson. Well, I would say Abe Lincoln said the best way to defeat your enemy is to make them your your ally. That’s an Akito philosophy. It really is because you’re blending, you’re moving, you’re finding commonalities versus disparities and resistance. And to the extent that we can do that as human beings, especially today, boy, we’d be better off. And that’s what I say in my TEDx. If we start looking at the similarities and simpher differences, we’ll see again, like you say, on your arm, we are all the universe. We are all intertwined.
23:49
And if we look at those similarities and how we can work towards those things, as opposed to battling the semantics and splitting hairs about this or that. I think that if you had two people that were born from the same family raised the exact same way, you ask them enough questions, eventually there will be things they disagree on. And if that’s just human nature, let’s just understand these things. And I know that for a fact because I have a twin brother. I have an identical twin brother. And that’s exactly the fact, right? There are certain things we disagree on. Okay. So what you say is true. We are all human. I would say this.
24:19
We have to recognize that we’re all human. I like to say, but we’re like cars. We’re all human, we come in different shapes and sizes and flavors. So there are some, some of us are Jeeps, some of us are Ferraris, some of us are SUVs. There’s no judgment because the Jeep can do things that Ferrari can’t do and the Ferrari can do things that Jeep can’t do. The key is, I think the key to exploring one’s potential and really diving into success and performance is to lift your hood and see what.
24:45
you know, what your engine looks like, you know, and part of that process is to figure out what attributes you show up to the game with, because then you have some information that you’re armed with because you can say, okay, well, maybe I’m a Jeep that’s been trying to run on a Ferrari track the whole time, or maybe I’m a Jeep and I want to run on the Ferrari track. So now I know what I need to do to help me run better on the Ferrari track, because that’s a choice as well. Understanding that about ourselves is the first step, I think, because if you don’t know that you’re just going to be, you’re going to be trying things and it’s not going to work and you’re not going to lie. Yeah, it makes so much sense.
25:13
Rich, where can we learn more about you? Where can we direct our listeners to learn more about your work, the incredible book, the attributes? Everyone get the physical book and then listen to it on Audible as well, because you get to hear it from the author’s own mouth and then you’ll go back and you can underline and you can make your notes so that you have it not only audibly, but physically to be able to read it and really get the lesson. Yeah, yeah, so I think that the…
25:35
The website probably the best place, theatrace.com. You can get the book there, you can take the assessment tool. A quick word on the assessment tool, it’s a, when we put that together, it’s a comparison. So we got data from about a thousand people. So when you get your results back, first of all, the assessment’s designed to get you to think about yourself as you’re taking it, okay? So you have to really take some time. And then when you get your results back, just understand it’s a comparison to a thousand or so other people, which means it might speak to you, but if it doesn’t, it feels a little off, that’s gonna require a little bit more introspection, because it’s just comparison.
26:03
So I just encourage people to take it and it’s a start point from which you can do further work. But those are free, the grits, the mental acuity, the drive ones, we’re working on a team ability and a leadership one now. I also have some workbooks on there. So if people want to develop attributes, there’s some guides to develop attributes. And then, yeah, I’m on Instagram at rich underscore divini and LinkedIn. And then, yeah, and then Facebook, we have attributes Facebook page as well. So any one of those places. Fantastic, everyone.
26:31
Thank you so much, Rich. I will talk to you soon, my friend. Thank you, Marcus. It’s a pleasure to be here. Let’s make sure we keep in touch. Absolutely, it was an honor. Thank you for listening to this episode of Acta Non Verba.
Until next time, remember, talk is cheap. Live your life based on actions, not words.
