This week, Rayron Gracie, a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt and four-time world champion from the famous Gracie family, shares his life journey, discussing his influential family background, his love for writing, and the philosophy of living a life based on actions, not words. The conversation explores Rayron’s experiences and insights gained from competing at a high level, the importance of selflessness, and his new initiative, Victory of Arts, which aims to help children find their true calling through different forms of art. They also discuss the profound impact of altruism, the value of gratitude in the face of adversity, and the lessons learned from martial arts and philosophy.
Episode Highlights:
01:55 The Silent Retreat Experience
06:50 The Legacy of Gracie Jiu Jitsu
18:45 The Art of Teaching and Competing
44:39 Embracing the Muse
46:21 The Reality of Selfishness in Pursuing Greatness
47:22 Balancing Selfishness and Contribution
55:26 The Birth of Victory of Arts
01:06:05 The Importance of Altruism
01:21:24 Recommended Reads for Personal Growth
01:49:33 Building Resilience and Gratitude
02:11:54 The Power of Helping Others
Rayron Gracie is a jiu-jitsu athlete and a member of the Gracie Family, arguably the most important family in the history of this martial art, belonging to the 4th generation of the clan’s production of outstanding combat sports competitors. Rayron was officially promoted to the black belt rank by his cousin, Kyra Gracie (June 2023), but also worked extensively with a number of the family’s legendary members such as Renzo, Rolles, Igor, Gregor, and Roger Gracie. Rayron Gracie first made waves in the sport while successfully competing on the International Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Federation (IBJJF) circuit, particularly in the gi (kimono) ruleset.
You can learn more about Rayron here: https://www.rayrongracie.com/
Episode Transcript:
00:32
Acta Non Verba is a Latin phrase that means actions, not words. If you want to know what somebody truly believes, don’t listen to their words instead, observe their actions. I’m Marcus Aurelius Anderson and my guest today truly embodies that phrase. Rayron Gracie is a
01:00
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt, four times world champion, ranked number one in the world, ranking in every colored belt and a fourth generation of the famous Gracie family. He’s also an aspiring writer and we’re going to get all into that. He doesn’t have a book yet, but he will at some time in the near future. I met this young man at Steven Pressfield’s silent retreat in Malibu, California a few months back and
01:27
We clicked instantly. It felt like he was someone that I had known, but just hadn’t got to actually meet in person. So thank you for being here today. Obrigado. Obrigado. My pleasure. Absolutely. I know two words in Portuguese and that’s all I have. I apologize. That’s all I need. That’s all I need. Thank you. My pleasure to be here. It’s great to have you. You’re in London right now doing a lot of stuff. So taking the time is big for us. Explain to our listeners.
01:55
What made you go to Malibu that weekend? What was so compelling to go be a part of that experience with Steven Pressfield? I was in love with Steven’s work for a few years now. A cousin of mine gifted me one of his books. And I’ve been in the whole process of staying authentic to your path and really connecting to the thing that you might have came to Earth to do.
02:23
And Steven talks lot about that. He talks about the muse, right? And how the muse speaks to you, regardless of, you know, it doesn’t make any sense, but the muse, you for people watching, he talks about the muse as an inspiration source. And so I have been, you know, almost with my antenna, receiving a lot of things that don’t make any sense and positive things, of course. And then I remember of Steven.
02:52
And I received the email because I’m always tuned in from, from his, his works. So the moment I saw that he was doing a riding retreat, which was the first, right? was the first riding retreat he’s ever done. said, I was actually not going to be able to go because they had a tournament on the same dates, but then the tournament got canceled and, you know, that’s a sign. I went. I’m so glad you were there. What were some of your takeaways from that retreat?
03:22
Well, the main one I would say was to stay true to your calling. I don’t know if you remember, he mentioned at some point about a neighbor of his that somebody very sick. You remember that? Yes. So, in long story short, a neighbor of his, you should receive people who are very sick, very ill.
03:50
the last stages of actually, they’re about to pass. And the correct, if I remember it differently, let’s say, you know, there’s stage four, like very bad cancer and they knock on the guy’s door. the first thing that a guy asks is, did you ever had a career or a pursuit that you didn’t follow as a kid? And, you know, in this case, the person, was a woman, I believe, she said, yes, I always wanted to
04:19
to play piano, right? And so the guy goes, okay, buy a piano today and start studying and playing as a field professional. And the cancer stopped getting worse, stopped developing to the point where she could treat it and she lived many, years after that. So that was the main takeaway, staying true to your authentic self, regardless of how inconvenient it might be in the present moment. Yeah. And that was a powerful story.
04:50
I remember seeing on your story that you had the War of Art by Steven Pressfield. And that’s when I reached out. was like, man, this book, like every year I read it and just go through it and you can get something new every time, every time you go through it. and then, so for those of you, you’ve heard the podcast, you know who Steven Pressfield is, but he said that he was an abject failure for 30 years. And then by the time we’re listening to him, it’s been 30 years thereafter. So he’s been writing for 60 years.
05:20
So this man is literally forgotten about more than what we have learned when it comes to writing. So to be there, to be around that group of people and the energy there was tremendous. It was special. Yeah, very special. It was a great vibe. It was quiet, so it gave us a lot of time to reflect as well. We got to go out and kind of look at the sunset and everything else. So was incredible. I’m so glad you were there. There was a guy there and I didn’t know how serious…
05:48
we’re gonna think they’re the silent thing, right? Because it was a silent retreat. So in breaks and during the things, we were not allowed to speak, but I didn’t know how serious he was. So the guy came to talk to me and he’s making signs and stuff and I just start speaking. And man, he looked so pissed at me. So pissed. I was like, okay, okay, we’re taking this stuff too serious. Yeah, for real, like for real silent. For real, yeah.
06:16
Yeah. And like you said, we don’t know how serious they are. it was, and I think it was nice. I wish we could have applauded and encouraged Steve more when he was speaking, but outside of that, it was brilliant. So. Rhoda did an incredible job. think that was the first one as well. Right. you know, was incredible. Yeah. I’m so glad that you made it out there. I’m glad that I was able to make it out there too. There was a lot of great connections. And then, so for those that don’t know,
06:47
You do this thing called Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Your last name is Gracie. And everyone that’s listened to me probably knows very much that history. could you explain to us what the last name Gracie means in Brazil and the responsibility and in many ways the weight that comes with that? Yes. Jiu-Jitsu is a Japanese martial art. It has an incredibly long and rich history.
07:16
you know, hundreds, thousands of years. The first records that they have is from Mesopotamia. I mean, it’s incredibly… Sometimes people think that it was created 100 years ago by my family. you know, I can tell you that much that it wasn’t. So at one point, Japanese master, Jujutsu master, Jujutsu, right? It’s a long story about the translation, but Japanese fighter.
07:45
Master, he stopped in, he used to travel the world and the way that he made his money was he used to fight other fighters from other martial arts. And so he traveled throughout Europe, Asia, everywhere. And then he ended up in Brazil in a city called Belém do Pará. And while he was there, he met with the circus owner and they set up this event where he fought very tough guys. In Brazil, we got some big guys.
08:15
and the guys undermined the little Japanese fella and they got their asses kicked. It was so impressive that the people who watched thought it was staged of how impressive it was, of how easily the little guy could beat more than one opponent, not at the same time, but in the same night.
08:43
The owner of the circus knew they wasn’t staged because he was the one that arranged everything. Three groups of people didn’t know, knew they wasn’t staged. It was the fighter who beat them up, the fighters who got beat up, and the circus owner. So the circus owner really asked him to teach his children that. And he taught Carlos, and then Carlos taught Elias, so they both learned. And those are my great-grandfathers.
09:13
And the rest is history. They had both of them, 33 kids, a lot of kids. And they saw that this was going to take over the world. And initially, it was perceived as just another martial art, a superior martial art in terms of efficiency in dealing with others. But Carlos, both of them, Carlos and Eli, they saw a tool for human development.
09:42
and morally and character. They saw there was an incredible tool to develop confidence in another person, right? A person that is more fragile. Because the whole goal of it is self-defense. So in a nutshell, the Gracie family was responsible for, of course, carrying on the development that had been done the past hundreds of years of Jiu-Jitsu. It didn’t invent Jiu-Jitsu.
10:11
just carried on the development. But it did a very specific important thing, which was to keep alive the part, which was mainly the ground. Because if you look at Juro, where they came from the same source, Juro now and then started being more focused standing for many different reasons. And I believe that if he wasn’t for Carlos and Helio and for Konji Koma, the Japanese fighter who
10:40
master who taught them, that branch of Jiu-Jitsu on the ground would have died off eventually because Jigoro Kanno and the Japanese fighters were really persistent with just keeping the standing part. So, you know, that’s the main role in the expanding Jiu-Jitsu throughout the world, but mainly on that
11:08
that branch on the ground, is mainly focused on self-defense and does not rely much on weight and strength.
11:18
Summarizing it very, very quickly. No, but I love it and that concept of this understanding that we need to be prepared for an opponent that is bigger, stronger, faster, because no matter how good we are, there will always be an opponent that is bigger, stronger, faster. And if my technique is only predicated on the fact that I’m bigger or stronger and I fight a bigger or stronger person, now I have no options. But as you were saying, with leverage, with timing, with the ability to feel what they’re doing,
11:47
a smaller person that’s petite, they’re incredible female competitors in jujitsu, and they will tie you up and lock you up so quick, won’t even, your arm is just extended, you can’t even tap quickly enough because that’s the beauty of this art, and that’s what gives that philosophy, that component of, I don’t have to win, I just allow my opponent to lose. Yes, yes. And the whole goal, the foundation of it is self-defense.
12:16
So with the development of competition and fighting, people started to look at it as a, it became a sport. And as in every sport, the main goal is to win and dominate and impose your will on your opponent. And so it got very blurred on what are the goals of Jiu Jitsu, you know? And so if we go back to the essence, it is self-defense, it’s not to win a tournament. It’s not to…
12:46
It’s not to fight against someone who knows Jiu-Jitsu as well and see whose techniques are sharper. Because then you’re trying to impose on each other your will. And the essence of it is self-defense in the sense of somebody comes to attack you, you’re going to survive. It’s never to dominate completely.
13:13
It’s something that throughout the past few years, in the past two decades, actually, it has been on this route of sport. And so the line gets very blurred. Yeah. And I think that in 1993, Oisgracy, when he came over, was able to kind of show, especially Americans, because we think we know everything. We think that we’re the best at everything. And that evening… You guys are in a lot of days.
13:41
But not Jiu Jitsu. We had no idea. We were completely blown away. He walked in very unassuming to us. And just like with that in those other competitions where he fought a man, rested, fought another man, rested, fought another man, and again, completely bested them in every capacity. And it revolutionized what we know today is essentially MMA in the United States and the world in many ways, I believe. That was a pivotal moment for
14:11
for not only Jiu-Jitsu, but martial arts history, right? So Horyon and a friend of his founded the UFC, right? So it was a pivotal moment for not only Jiu-Jitsu, but martial arts history as a whole, because everything was changed. You couldn’t become a fighter anymore and not know Jiu-Jitsu. After that,
14:39
Up to UFC 4 was when it was undeniable that Jiu Jitsu was the most efficient martial art in fighting. If you had to hand it to my cousin, one of my cousins talks very well about it. It’s the best investment they can possibly make. You’re going to get the most out of it. And in terms of fighting, it became proven that it was the most efficient. Because they put wrestlers, put trackers, they put
15:10
every martial arts, not only in UFC, but in all other challenges that happened simultaneously. And Jiu-Jitsu always, most of the times, prevailed. Well, the other beauty of it is, like you said, up until UFC IV, even people that were having to learn to defend themselves against Jiu-Jitsu had to invariably learn Jiu-Jitsu.
15:33
So Jiu Jitsu was winning irrespective of what was going on and that’s why it proliferated the way that it has. Yes, it’s actually very nice you mentioned that because there was an interesting thing that happened with the past 10 years was that, you know, people were fighting some of the family members who initially were the only ones that knew Jiu Jitsu and they started to, some of them started to win, right? So against the family members.
16:02
And so people started to say, Oh, Jiu-Jitsu doesn’t work. But the guy was using Jiu-Jitsu to beat them. You know what mean? Yes, exactly. So, so, you should say that just proves, you know, the efficiency of it. So that’s actually interesting because people started seeing others beating graces with Jiu-Jitsu and saying that it doesn’t work. But in the end of the day, it’s Jiu-Jitsu.
16:32
And again, the family was never fighting to prove that they were the best individually, but actually to prove that the martial arts was, they were fighting for the martial art, not for themselves as an individual, at least in those initial years. Yeah, it was incredible. It really shook the bedrock. I had been doing a lot of kicking and punching arts up to that point, a little bit of Aikido, a little bit of Jiu-Jitsu, but once that happened,
17:02
you had to… That’s what it was. Hoist Gracie was actually in Texas in 1995 and I went to my first seminar with him there and we learned… I remember you mentioned, yes. Yeah, we learned the hip toss, we learned Americana, we learned to wear a naked choke. It’s fun. It’s beautiful. I bought the VHS tapes. That’s how old I am, the VHS tapes. And I would look at them, but it’s just like all learning.
17:30
I could look at it and sort of try to drill it with the person who didn’t know anything. But then being there and being with the person who actually knew it and you see it. Yeah. That feel that their body wraps around you like an anaconda, there’s no looseness at all. Everything is very tight. And once you’re in there, it’s like, I don’t have, there’s no way I can get out of this. And that’s when it just made so much sense. Yeah. doesn’t even compare when you learn in person with someone that knows.
17:59
And this brings me to the topic of how a lot of people have bad experiences. You know, they go to a Jiu-Jitsu academy, which is not very good or not good at all, right? And they have a bad experience with it. And then they think that Jiu-Jitsu sucks. But it’s not that Jiu-Jitsu sucks, it’s that the place you went to sucked, right? So it’s almost, you know, me going to…
18:27
to consult with a bad doctor and all of a sudden I say that medicine doesn’t work. It’s not that medicine doesn’t work, it’s just that that doctor that is trying to, is teaching medicine, he’s applying it in a very bad way. So I would say that even though there are incredible instructors and incredible academies in some of the places they might not even imagine, and some…
18:55
not known that didn’t win any tournaments because you do not do something to talk about it, but you don’t have to win many tournaments just to become a great teacher. And quite often it’s actually the opposite. Yes. Right. But you can, you can find some great instructors, uh, very welcoming places and, and really teach based on the source, but the vast majority of academies, uh, there’s a risk of, of not having a good
19:24
experience with Jiu Jitsu, right? And I’m not saying that all of my family members, academies are approved. No, some aren’t as well. So I’m just saying that if you do go to an academy and you didn’t have a great experience, if you had already or you’re about to and you do, just remember that it’s not the martial arts fault. It might be the person who is the medium, right? Applying it. It’s just like any kind of philosophy or anything that we learn, right?
19:53
A philosophy is only as pragmatic as the person using it. The same thing with the art. The jujitsu is undeniable, but yet you have a person that’s not teaching it well and applying it well, or the intention behind it. And that changes very much the result. Completely. Yeah, that’s beautiful. That’s true. Yeah. And there’s also the factor of if the person matches their belt on and off the mat, which I think is a big, big, big thing that people don’t talk about much.
20:23
Usually the belt that they wear represents only while they’re on those soft, you know, five inch mats. And that’s it. You know, usually it’s just there. And so it’s hard to find somebody that matches it morally, character, you know, that really has, as they develop the techniques on the mat, they have equally simultaneously.
20:52
developed their character off the mat, right? Both, but only not, but you know, so it’s hard to find. It’s not an easy task finding a good academy new. Yeah, it’s, Epictetus says, don’t tell me your philosophy, embody it. So if you’re a black building, any art, irrespective of what it is, we should be able to see that by the way you conduct yourself on the streets, opening the door, being courteous, having common courtesy, having situational awareness to use your art to protect others.
21:22
because it’s not a weapon, it’s a shield. That’s why we learn that we don’t wanna have to use it. We wanna know if we have to, that we can get to that point, but it’s always a last resort. And I think that intention of the martial arts is forgotten at times, especially in the United States. Nowadays it has become very commercialized, where the only goal is, let’s get as many students as possible. Let’s make this as…
21:51
catchy and as trendy as we can and yeah, get profit, right? So at times instead of maybe, know, starting some philosophy and really applying it to their lives in the academy, they might be only thinking of marketing and how can I get this? How can I get that? you know, which color is gonna look cool? So, you know.
22:19
So those things are, of course, everybody needs them, but it’s how much of a priority you put on them. Yeah. And I’m not saying that money is not important. Obviously we have to be able to pay our rent. And if you’re that gym owner and you don’t want to have to sleep in the back, you want to be able to have enough money to get an apartment, that’s fantastic. But again, the intention comes down to, am I trying to get enough students to do this or am I trying to get enough students so that I can…
22:50
have the ability to really pour into these people, really pour into these young people, competitors, whatever it is. And I think that, like you say, sometimes that gets conflated. And back to your other point about how sometimes there are great competitors, but that does not mean that they teach well and vice versa. Can you speak to that? Yes. And the reason why I believe most competitors who achieve competitive excellence on the match
23:19
or anywhere, they actually become, they’re not the greatest teachers. And I believe it is because in the, the, in the path of becoming, achieving greatness on the mats as a competitor, have to become a very selfish person. Very, very extremely selfish. Right. And, and in a lifetime of selfishness, you start to, to ignore
23:48
other people’s needs. And when you think of the role of a professor is filling in those needs, you’re teaching people how to fill in the needs themselves. So if you haven’t built that skill, which is a skill, right, depending on whatever you want to teach, it’s a skill. If you haven’t built that skill and added on to it for years and years and years, consciously and unconsciously,
24:18
Then the moment you retire and there was like, okay, now I’m going to be a teacher, a professor. It’s not like that. You have now to, to, you know, take all of the selfishness out of you first, which is very hard. And then, um, start working to, to, you know, feeling yourself in first and then give it back to others. And I love that because how old are you? 22. 22. And you’ve been competing for many years. It’s been now, uh, just, just now.
24:49
going to be that kid next year, so nine years now. But yet the man that I speak to right now, I can tell and I know you from meeting you and from experiencing you that you are not a person who does not have these skills. You’re not a person who cares only about himself. Thank you. How were you able to maintain that giving and giving that to others in addition to allowing yourself to perform to the level that you needed to at the world level?
25:19
It’s hard because it’s something very hard to do. And I would say that some of my family members are extremely generous and extremely great people. And they genuinely care about others. I have been very fortunate to meet some of greatest teachers I have met and they’re in my family. So it’s a great thing to have an example of New York.
25:47
And I have always loved one thing that I’m very passionate about way more than teaching, than competing is being able to give somebody something. Right. Because I believe that the only thing you’ll never regret in life, you might regret the place you choose to live. You might regret the partner you pick. You might regret your job. You might regret everything. Right. Literally everything.
26:16
But the only thing you’ll never regret is helping others. That’s the only thing you won’t regret. Even if that person has done wrong to you afterwards, you did the right thing. You stand by the right side. And professors, all they’re doing is helping others, right? They’re teaching a skill. So I’ve been, throughout this competitive journey, I’ve been very fortunate to have been taught to me.
26:44
and just seeing on my cousins and uncles, some great teachers. And I always admired that. And so it wasn’t a very conscious thing that I was trying to work on, but it just happened throughout the years. I believe that that also gave you the capacity to compete at a higher level faster because you were much more of a complete human. Yes, it gives you tools. It gives you many resources. So it makes you
27:13
It allows you to be able to maybe see details where most people wouldn’t see them. And that’s within the technicalities of Jiu Jitsu. That is the thing that I have always been the most fascinated with some of my cousins and uncles is why were you able to see this little detail that you just taught me while hundreds of people that you train with daily, know, decades.
27:40
couldn’t see why was that and so it comes down to that right the ability to see the you expand this expand your your awareness in all areas so that’s why I believe you know it’s summed up not only in one way but as a whole yeah Miyamoto Musashi says that once we see the way in one area we see it broadly everywhere so just like just like you’re saying if you push into that person and you feel the opponent wobble or you feel them
28:10
even push back slightly, now you have that data point, go, okay, I’m gonna sweep this guy. I’m gonna sweep this guy in a minute, but right now I’m gonna let him work on this. And that’s the beauty of it. It’s such a beautiful game. It’s a beautiful analogy for life. And then growing up as a Gracie, there was a certain expectation from you, a certain pressure, would you say? Is that correct? 100%. Because…
28:38
It is something that it doesn’t have to be said. No one has to come up to you and say, you have to do this, have to that. It’s just there. You have a family of doctors. The whole family has been, for the past five generations, four generations, have been, you know, and now you’re here. Nobody has to say anything. And a lot of did. So I made sure that it was clear. And I used to see it as a burden.
29:09
And then when I was 14, 15, I started to fall in love with Jiu and started to appreciate more all these aspects that we’ve been talking about now. So it’s the way you look at it, the way that you let it interact with you. But it definitely led me in a route where recently I had to realize, okay, was this my choice or was this the thing that I had to do, right? Yeah, I think that that’s… And we’ll get into that here in a little bit.
29:38
And even with your writing practice, you started a writing practice at a very young age, at around six years old. Could you explain to us the edifice of that and how that still is with you today in many ways? Yes. I can’t remember exactly when I first started writing, but I do remember because my dad passed out six. I was the last. It was one week after my sixth birthday.
30:07
And the only the first memory that I have of something related to writing was when I was a kid that there was a homework on Father’s Day and you’re supposed to write a letter to your father. So I wrote this letter to my father and I still have it. And I had passed already. you know, the kids letter, oh, I miss you. I hope everything’s great in heaven. You know, let’s catch up. So.
30:38
And it was a beautiful letter, you know. That’s the main memory that I have of starting to write. That’s how I… And it felt great. Writing for me is one of the most important things a person can do. And sometimes you have a natural lean towards it, you know. Depends on the muse. But it’s… If you look at history…
31:07
We carry traditions and history itself is through writing. The main way that we pass it forward is not just culture. one of the main, I mean, maybe probably the main way is writing. And I think it’s a beautiful thing for a man to live a life and then put it down. What have I learned from this lifetime? I’m about to go off, what can I, what manual of structure?
31:36
instructions. Can I leave for the people who are still not here among us? I admire people who write a lot. think it’s a beautiful craft. It’s a beautiful discipline. I absolutely agree. And I can’t even imagine being that age, your father passing, but then giving you this vessel, this pathway to fall in love with writing in so many ways.
32:05
And now it continues like Shujitsu, like your father’s legacy, your legacy, just being alive, speaking today. You carry that with you in your actions and your words and what you write in your words. And I, I love that that was something that you were able to do. And then it gives gravity. teaches you at such a young age when I’m writing matters. These are not just scribbles on a piece of paper. This is because writing is emotion in my mind. Yeah.
32:32
So when you write a book, you want to try to bleed onto the page. You want to try to give them everything that you can. And then you hear statistics that say that 50 % of the people that start your book may not finish it, but you can’t listen to that stuff because as Steven Pressfield said, it’s the practice itself for the practice’s sake. That’s the only reason why we do it. And the man that you become after you set the pen down or after you step away the computer is a better man.
33:02
than he was when he first began that. And whether you write for a minute or an hour, it’s this powerful introspection and reflection. And it helps us really know who we are, what’s important to us, what the hell we believe, what we’re willing to live or die for. And that’s why I think it’s so important. Definitely. Monica, I couldn’t agree more. And being able to put in towards feelings and emotions and random thoughts and,
33:29
It is a hell of a practice. So, and it’s a beautiful skill. And not only on the paper, but communicating as well, because now you’re developing this, this almost like a filter, right? You’re like, okay, I have this thing in mind. What is it? And so when you, when you have to confine it within words, you have to really get the essence of it to, put it out to the world. So.
33:58
It’s Stephen says, It’s transfer, transfer, transfer, transference. Yes, transference. Realms, right? You’re getting something that’s not within you. It’s out there and then you got to bring it in. And that process is, is is a hell of a skill. Yeah. It is. And I also believe that our experiences as human beings here on earth, whether it be overcoming resistance and adversity,
34:27
becoming stronger. He talked about the voltage. He talked about being able to handle whatever the music is giving you. And if we don’t have these other skill sets, if we don’t have this ability to sit with discomfort, overcome resistance, whatever it is, then we could have all of this ideas in our mind. But if we cannot put pen to paper, if we cannot finish it, then it’s sort of wasted. I, in today’s society, seems like everybody wants to learn and read, but
34:56
I’ve always said that knowledge that is acquired but unutilized is the equivalent of ignorance. So it does us no good to have all these things to not be able to present them. And that’s why you learning that at such a young age gives you this huge direction in which to go in potentially as well. Yes, true. What you said reminded me of what Stephen said about being able to deal with resistance and sitting there asking the chair.
35:25
being the skill of skills, right? Without this one skill of facing resistance, which is beating procrastination and beating obstacles that are real things around you, in front of you, if you don’t have that skill, we cannot master any skill. So it is the skill of skills. I love that he said. And the other thing that comes to mind about knowledge. I was listening to this beautiful class lecture on knowledge.
35:54
It’s a Brazilian philosopher. name is Lúcia Helena Galvão. Unfortunately, I believe there’s only in Portuguese, but hopefully with this AI thing, they hope to do justice to translate. But it’s beautiful. You should definitely hear. But the thing that you reminded me of was, it’s not her. She didn’t develop, but she was the one that mentioned. So that’s why I wanted to give credits.
36:24
She talks about knowledge as a spoon that rests on the soup.
36:34
And where I’m going with this is if you ask a spoon who is resting inside a soup, what do you know about the soup? Nothing. You know, it doesn’t know anything. It can carry it, but it doesn’t, cannot describe it salty. If it’s tasty, if it’s sweet, you can’t. So knowledge, you have to see it as the tongue that touches the soup, not the spoon.
37:04
So when you have knowledge, you’re able to know if it’s salty. Most people in the world, when we talk about knowledge, they are the spoon instead of the tongue. If you ask the tongue, what is this content? What is this about that you just touched upon? The tongue will be able to say, It’s salty, it is sweet, it has this, you know? And going on on. It knows everything about the soup.
37:33
But what about you, spoon, right? What do you know about the soup? Nothing. The only thing that you might say is, I was able to carry 10 portions. You know, was able to carry, right? So it’s like saying, how many books have you read? Oh, I’ve read 10 books. What are they about? What has, you know? So I love that analogy. was such a powerful, right? Most people in the world now, their knowledge is like the spoon that touches the soup. Beautiful, right?
38:02
I love that analogy. so true and it is beautiful and poetic and the visual is also really striking because it shows us. And like you say, there’s so many people that are, I read a book a week. He’s like, no, you don’t use skim a book a week because I ask you what book you read five books ago. You don’t know. And if you remember the book, tell me three powerful things you learned from it. They don’t know. So why are they in such a hurry to still remain ignorant? It doesn’t make any sense. would rather them take.
38:30
Right? Take one great book by Steven Pressfield and just read it and digest it and make it part of you. It would be like you showing me an arm bar. You’re like the best in the world. You can show me an arm bar. I can say, I learned the arm bar from one of the best in the world. If I don’t apply it, I will never pull that thing off in a role, let alone in a self-defense situation. So application is everything. This reminds me of one of the lessons that I’ll never forget from my uncle Hanzo.
38:58
who’s an incredible person and is one of the person when I was talking about great teachers and great people that I was able to, fortunate to live with, is up there. And he taught me to never repeat a mistake. And it’s simple, but it’s such a powerful thing because in Jiu Jitsu, but then it applies everywhere in life.
39:26
If you go to class and you go to train and you never repeat a mistake ever, so you’re training, you’re starting off your white belt, if you never ever repeat a mistake, you’re going to get your black belt in terms of weeks, months. You know what I mean? Because if you never repeat a mistake, then that means that you do it once. You’re never going to do it again. Of course, I wish it was that simple, but…
39:54
It might be simple. We might be the ones making complicated. But I thought that is very powerful because even in our interactions, I was rude to that person. Well, I made a mistake. Never, I mean, if you can never repeat it again. Imagine how much we will be able to evolve, right? If you read a book and what have you acquired from it into your life? Because not doing so is a mistake.
40:24
So just having that mindset of not repeating a mistake that we unconsciously do for a lifetime. We repeat mistakes that we started off as 10-year-olds, and then when we’re older, I’m talking as if I’m already. But at least in my humble 22 years, yeah.
40:50
I have seen things that I’ve been doing for a long time and then I’m like, okay, I’ve been doing this unconsciously for 10 years. It started off when I was a young kid and I keep repeating it. if I had stopped then I would be a way better person now. Yeah. I always say there’s two ways to deal with adversity, correctly or again. And like you said, there are two ways to deal with adversity, correctly or again. Yeah, true. Exactly.
41:19
So like you say, I love that and and Hensel Gracie is a master. He’s incredible. Very passionate as a fighter, but also very passionate in what he does for the system to perpetuate it. A great representation of it. And as a matter of fact, when I saw you walking, I saw that tattoo on your calf. And I was like, people don’t get that tattoo if they’re just like a casual. They’re not a weekend warrior. These people are in it. I got to pass. I got to pass. Yeah.
41:49
It was incredible. Hands on hands is incredible.
41:56
He likes to post things and he makes fun of everybody without an exception. And people focus so much on that thing. They think, oh, he joked about this, he joked about that. talking about someone who has lived with him and has been lucky to get to know him, is the most, not one of the most generous person I have ever met.
42:25
by far. And the things that he has done helping people are, it’s hard to believe it’s, it’s a, and so when I see people arguing about how he made this joke wasn’t very correct. It was very okay. But he’s right on the ways that matter, you know? So on the ways that I’m concerned about how a human should act, have, I’m, know, my mind rests when I think of him. So.
42:55
He’s a great person. Well, he also points out to not take ourselves so seriously. He’s also very qualified to have the opinion that he has because of his body of work speaks for itself. So if you’re offended by something that he said, maybe step back and say, why am I so offended by that? As opposed to being upset about what he said, maybe learn the lesson, maybe see what he’s trying to point out. In concepts of martial arts, they always say it’s like a finger pointing at the moon. Don’t look at the finger. Look at what they’re trying to show you.
43:25
And I think that instead of being upset about the finger that’s pointing at this thing, why don’t you open up in yourself and say, why is that such a big deal? Yeah. That’s the way I would suggest is, why is such a big deal? And what matters is this or that? There’s many other qualities that think matter way more than what society nowadays takes for putting a pedestal over. Yes.
43:55
And so jujitsu has been your life. It’s been in the very essence of you from the very beginning. And then we talk about the muse and we talk about what the calling is. And lots of times what I have found being 52 now that sometimes the muse puts us in certain areas and it’s like this circle, this sphere, and we learn a lot from it. But then sometimes we move to other areas of the sphere.
44:23
and we can take those concepts or those lessons or those practices, but then we walk into this other arena and it can still serve us there. And then those two spheres overlap into like this Venn diagram of who you are in this moment. Can you describe to us what that feels like, how the muse is speaking to you now as you move forward in your life? Yeah, firstly, that’s it’s beautiful. I said, and for me it is very accurate.
44:51
because most people they think they limit themselves to one thing, one craft, one pursuit. And so their whole life is gonna be based on that. And if all of a sudden they have to change, they start hating on their past. And they shouldn’t, so because you have learned a lot from it and as you said, it carries on. So I 100 % agree with that.
45:20
As we start talking about this, one thing I want to first mention is in no way I feel, I just don’t want people to think that I’m talking bad about competition or about talking down on it in any way. It has added tremendously to my life. I’m really glad I did it. But as you do for quite a while, you start to see some different things.
45:50
The past 10 years I’ve been competing and you start to see how for you to achieve an excellent level, a level of excellency without any sport, you have to be selfish. You cannot get there without being selfish. And you can ask this to any athlete in any, not only martial arts, it can be…
46:17
you know, soccer, you have to be selfish. If you’re not, you won’t get very far, right? You might get far, but you will not be one of the greatest, right? And I’m not one of the greatest. I was fortunate enough to get very good results, but I’m far from being one of the greatest, such as Hodger and many, many great champions, right? So, this is what I’m…
46:47
point that out before people start, you know, but anyway, you have to be selfish. And so I started realizing how much of a, when you think back to professors, right, and teaching, how much you have to cut that off and just focus on yourself for a lifetime, right? And that’s only, we’re talking only about the selfishness.
47:16
aspect of their life, of their life dedicating yourself to a craft. And there are crafts, for instance, that dedicating yourself to it might not have a very selfish impact on the world. As a doctor who is trying to plunge himself into work to develop, to find a cure for certain disease, that’s not selfish at all. But in a lot of cases, all right, for example, I don’t believe it is a selfish pursuit at all.
47:46
But in a lot of cases with fighting and it can be more leaned on to actually being a selfish pursuit than actually adding value to other people’s lives in terms of scale. I hope I’m not getting too confused. No, it makes perfect sense. Yeah. Some pursuits are more selfish than others. And just keeping that aside, right? I also realized that
48:16
the world that we live in, it doesn’t do the best job at presenting the coming generation, the kids nowadays, for example. We don’t do the best job at presenting them with this range of activities, of crafts, of areas that they can, is this for you, is that for you? And so we tend to really, I’ll use myself as an example.
48:44
no one came up to me and said, you have to be a fighter. No one ever did that. But they would say, oh, you wouldn’t be very smart if you didn’t. So it’s kind of like guiding you and instead of just letting it very, very open for the kid to do whatever he wants. of course, these I’m talking about people who are very fortunate to even be able to
49:14
to have the privilege of asking themselves what they want to be, right? Because depending on where you’re born, you might not even have the privilege to be able to ask that question. You might just have to do something. So it’s also important to take that into consideration. But again, there’s the selfishness of it. And then there’s the struggle that the world has to be able to open this range of activities for a kid to
49:43
pick from, freely pick from, right? If they want to be a writer in a family of lawyers, go be a writer. If you want to be a magician in a family of, you know, and vice versa. So with me, I’ve always wanted to write, right? Since I was a kid. But again, I was always fighting and I’m glad I did as well. So I’m not regretful at all. But then it starts to have this feeling inside of you.
50:13
that grows stronger and stronger and stronger. So those two feelings of the selfishness, being able to see the selfishness in a lifetime of dedication for competition, and also the calling that I’ve heard within me to writing, start to simultaneously, they start to grow, grow, grow, grow. And you start to live your life feeling this feeling of unfulfillment.
50:42
in a life that it’s great, right? Like, you you’re winning things, you’re achieving the titles that you always dreamed of, and why doesn’t it feel right? Why there’s something off? So now, within this past year, I think it got to the point where these two things were screaming inside of me, right? You know, this is a very selfish life. You cannot live your whole life trying to…
51:12
be the best on the version of yourself on the mat. Because again, it can lead to a very selfishness. mean, you won’t be able to help a lot of people. And that’s one thing. And then the other was just the craft of writing. And I believe was something that I was always passionate about. it doesn’t mean that I’m not saying that I’m good, but it was something that I always called me. So those two things this past year have
51:41
have come to the surface. And that’s what the process has been through these past 10 years. I’m just so impressed with you to not try to push that down at such a young age. And I know that I’m saying that you’re young, but when I was 22, I was doing martial arts, but I was just kind of taking whatever path was in front of me.
52:06
And all those paths led me down the path that I’m on now, but I didn’t understand how much agency I could have in my own life. So for you to be able to feel that now, for you to be aware and be able to step back and say, is this the thing that I want to continue doing? Is this the thing that’s going to fulfill me? Is this thing going to continue to be something that I want to keep doing sustainably for the next 20, 30, 40 years?
52:36
The beauty of, of writing in my opinion is that we’re like a wine. If we do it correctly, we get better at it. And even if our neck hurts or our joints hurt, we can still write something. And that whatever we put down on paper can be impactful for anyone, especially like you mentioned with AI. Now somebody can take my words in English or those words you were describing in Portuguese, and it can be something that affects all humanity if we’re willing to do that. So I applaud you for having the courage.
53:07
to look into yourself, to see what you want, what you, you want, not what other people want for you. It’s the truth because a lot of times today people don’t do that. So can you describe to us a little bit of how your process is of, do you just kind of come up with an idea and then you expand on it? you, I’ll jot things down in my phone or I’ll dictate them in there.
53:34
I’m about to finish my second book, so I sort of get little buckets or little ideas. But what is your process like? How do you enjoy expressing yourself? Yes. Personally, you said something that caught my attention now that I’m thinking of, which was, in the beginning, I used to just do whatever is in front of me. Right. So this makes me think of it for us who had a privileged life compared to many people in the world. Right.
54:04
who live unfortunate, very, very rough lives in many parts of the world. If we struggle, imagine them. If a lot of times you have the resources to try this and that, and we struggle to find our calling. Not just find, but also to have it in front of us and, okay, do this, right? A lot of people do not, most people do not have that in the world.
54:32
And so I believe that one of our obligations in this life is to help provide this for people, to help provide them with this, the privilege, which shouldn’t be a privilege, the human need of being able to pursue your calling. And so for the people who are in the place where they can help others, it’s a very powerful thing.
55:00
So believe that in the whole conversation about your calling and be able to pursue your goal, within that I believe that we should, if we’re able to do so, we should in the process have one of the maybe the main priority, should be able to provide that for others. And we can talk more about this later. I’ve been working on social projects.
55:29
which will be mainly in Brazil in the beginning, but will be in London as well. I’ve got some great people that I have teamed up with, some great tools. And in a nutshell, we’re helping people with that to find their calling. It’s called Victory of Arts. Victory of Arts? Yeah, Victory of Arts. It’s not online anywhere yet, but it will be.
55:59
Victory of Art. It can be… Tell us more. Tell us more. We’re already talking about it. I’m excited. I need to know more about it. no, no. That’s what I want. Victory of Art, the goal with it is it should do exactly what I said, is to provide kids with the chance of being able to pick their calling, right? At least arrange them the final vision is to… It’s called Victory of Art.
56:27
And the initials are VOA, so voa, right, when you read it, voa. And voa in Portuguese means fly. So it’s a beautiful meaning behind it. And the goal is to present them with many different types of art. So the art of writing, the art of jiu-jitsu, gentle art, as we call it. So there’s so many arts, painting.
56:57
There’s communication or authority, right? Like you speak, there’s so many art forms that kids would 100 % relate with and resonate and, you know, be there calling if they just had a presented to them, if they had an access, if somebody just here, have a try, right? And I believe that art is, and when we think of art, we usually think of just, you know, paintings and…
57:26
Most people probably just have this limited view on art, but art is in everything. This table is art, right? The thing that we’re talking about, in my view, is art. So life is full of art. And I heard this great quote, I have to look it up, who said it, the role of the artist, and this, by the way, I listened to in a podcast with Steven and someone else. I’m afraid I can’t remember the podcast, but.
57:55
Maybe we can write it down somewhere. But it was the role of the artist is to make revolution irresistible.
58:06
And when I think of revolution, don’t think of just fighting for whatever causes is revolution of humanity, right? And of developing morality, but the beauty, the beauty in art, right? And so to be able to present the kids that choice, give them that choice, what do you want to do? And how do you feel like you can give back to the world? What’s your calling? It’s a very powerful, powerful thing.
58:36
In the future, the goal that I’ve been having in my mind, and these great people that have been working together with me, is to have a facility, many facilities throughout the world, where we provide them with Jiu-Jitsu training, but not only Jiu-Jitsu training, but how to become teachers themselves, with writing classes, art, drawing, painting.
59:06
speaking, languages, and so many art forms that, know, all these crafts, beautiful crafts to develop, that we usually just, okay, whatever this is for, you know, our music. Music, anything like that would be tremendous. Music, yes, yes, 100%. I mean, everything, right? So, there’s many different ways that kids, I think, would be able to give.
59:34
incredible, beautiful gifts if we just give them the chance to do so. I love this. I’m excited about this. The other fantastic thing about this is at that age, if we can give them permission and let them start looking like that, even if they don’t become a Carnegie Hall musician, if they walk, if that’s the first step in this path, music leads to this artistic expression, which leads them to understand better choral music, whether they’re singing more.
01:00:03
any of these things, oftentimes we have to be willing to be lost on our path to find our path. And in this way, you can give them much a very head start to at least have an idea of what direction they want to go into, right? And by doing it with all these incredible people that are masters of what they do, they can get there much faster as opposed to just, I understand that.
01:00:30
Exactly. I understand that social media and the computers can help us, but you give them a general substance of direction. Yes. And now they don’t stumble towards this thing that they don’t even want in the end. So that’s amazing. One thing is that I lose sleep over this, and you brought up technology, right? Social media and the devices and Luciana, the philosopher I mentioned earlier.
01:00:59
Luciana Elena Galvão is her name. She talks beautifully about how in society, imagined as a human, as a person. And so we have this body and society has, how do you call it? Like part of it, like a norm? Do call it a member? What do you call it? What’s a- An extension or- A limb, right? A limb.
01:01:28
Limb, yes. Limb, call it a limb? A limb, yes. Okay, so we have these limbs, right? Society has these limbs. And so, you know, we have some that are so much bigger than others and it starts to hurt us. example, if technology in society is, for example, she describes it as this humongous arm, right? And it starts to hurt you because it’s not proportionate.
01:01:58
So you have love and compassion and you have these other areas of society, of humanity. technology is so advanced in so many ways, but we are lacking in so many other areas. So it’s this thing that’s hurting us. Because it’s not proportionate to other areas that are equally important, more important because of the discrepancy.
01:02:27
I think that the boa is a way to even things up. Yes. I love that. How long before this thing will be out where people can start to support it? We’re working on developing. There’s a huge process of which we’re close, know, nearing the end of getting the status, charity status, but having it done in the right way where
01:02:55
you can have access to every single dollar that is donated and every, you know, exactly where the resource went and being able to present everything that we’ve been working on, really make our mission clear. And so I want to start the right way. know, if this is something that’s going to last, you know, hopefully I’ll live a long life, but this is the pursuit of a lifetime to work on this. And so I want to do it the right way.
01:03:25
And then no one can ever, oh, this is a bit sketchy or no, it’s clear. so, and worldwide, right? We’re gonna start in Brazil, but eventually we want to provide kids from everywhere. So hopefully, I’ll say within the first, it’s already pretty much structured. It’s just getting everything legally set finalized on those countries.
01:03:54
And so I’d say before definitely 100 % before the first half of next year, we will be already public. So would you recommend people follow you on social media to stay abreast of those things? We will. You know, if the if it comes out because now we have a page on Instagram, right? It might change the username might change. Now it is at victory of dot art.
01:04:23
So victory of dark art, but it might change. So we’ll just stay tuned if you’re watching, to any updates and then we’ll share it. Yeah. And I’ll put all this stuff in the show notes. I’ll have them put all that in the show notes and I’ll update it as we go through because this is a beautiful mission. It’s one that we need. And I think that you’re uniquely qualified to be a person to spearhead this thing. So hopefully, hopefully.
01:04:50
Thank you. Well, but it sounds like you have great people around you as well. You’re familiar with Josh Wayskin, Marcelo Garcia’s black belt. Yeah, not Josh, but Marcelo, yes. Yes. Josh Wayskin was a chess champion. wrote a book. Oh yes, of course. Yes, yes. The Art of Learning. This sounds very similar to what he sees as a vision for children. maybe with your… Art of Learning. Yeah.
01:05:18
I know that you have a pretty good size network and jujitsu. He’s a performance coach. He’s a coach and he’s not on social media much at all. He’s been on Tim Ferriss’ podcasts, I think three or four times. Amazing, amazing guy. But maybe if there’s a way that you could connect with him somehow or find a way to. It sounds like you guys are cut from the same cloth wanting to do some similar things. Amazing, amazing.
01:05:47
The more people they got, the right? You know, in the right direction. That’s all we need. Yeah, he talks about that process and almost in chess where if you can learn to not make that mistake a second time, you’ve automatically cut a lot of time off of what you’re trying to do to be better. So I love that. What is the worst piece of advice that you hear repeated when it comes to, I don’t want to say jujitsu, but application of knowledge, because there’s a lot of
01:06:16
advice that may sound good, but we know that it’s not necessarily the most practical when it comes to application. Yes. For me personally, it comes back to what we’re talking about regarding you have to be selfish. Because for me, this is one of the most important things because you can live your life in a way that you live your life and you look back and I look and I was like, you know, I very glad I got five world.
01:06:45
championship titles. And, and yes, that’s great. Or you can look back and see and, you know, think I was able to help 10,000 people. I was able to help 10,000 kids. So I’ll say the worst advice that I usually hear is be selfish and pursue this thing. And I’m talking mainly about sports, but
01:07:13
generally be selfish. You have to be selfish. You don’t. You might not achieve the highest place on the podium where usually men are praised, but you achieve a much greater place in humanity. And within your consciousness, if you’re not selfish. for me, worst type of advice that I heard is
01:07:42
You have to be self-reliant. I think it’s great advice. And like you say, if we look at certain people, they’ll say they have to be obsessed. They have to have no work life balance. They have to ignore their, their wife and their kids to get to that point. And in my mind, when I see those sort of people and I, I actually coach people that are very successful, but then you see these other aspects of their life where they are not as fulfilled and
01:08:10
And those situations where they are not as fulfilled, they don’t understand that if they would pour into those relationships, it literally makes them perform better and all these other things that they are killing themselves to get better at. And as a matter of fact, it fills that void in a way that you, cause you cannot outwork that. You just can’t. It’s not possible. You don’t have the bandwidth. You have to have these other things. So that’s why when I was asking you earlier in the interview about
01:08:40
having this ability to want to teach, to want to help somebody else, in addition to you competing at a very high level, I think that it gave you that completeness that made you a better competitor for sure. Yeah. So this is the first time I’m saying it publicly. I’m officially retired from competition. So I’m not going to compete in Jiu anymore.
01:09:09
Again, I’m very glad I did. Up to this moment, I learned incredible, incredible lessons that I’ll never regret going down this path. why would someone try to, and again, I believe the reason why they might try to live a lifetime of achievement and trying to prove that I’m the best is because they might not have had the chance that they should have.
01:09:40
to pursue something more meaningful, more giving, more to helping others. So maybe that choice wasn’t given to them. So it’s not even their fault. But once you have that awareness of, have that choice, then it is wrong for you not to go down this road. So for me, living a lifetime of, want to be the best. I want to prove I want to have the most money. I want have this achievement, achievement, achievement, achievement.
01:10:10
It’s just a so surface and shallow life. It’s shallow. You’re about to die. In a few years, you’re to be dead on the ground. If you don’t believe in God, you’re an atheist, you’re going to be buried with the worms, right? Soon the worms are going to be all over you. And you haven’t helped anybody. Are you happy? You know what mean? So you’re going to be gone. You’re working your ass off to…
01:10:40
This reminds me of a story about Hanzo, just so people can get an idea of how Hanzo is. There’s many stories, but this is a recent one. I was in Abu Dhabi now. went to my last fight, right? And I went to fight and I’m sitting next to him in the car. And it’s a few days prior to the tournament. And I asked him, because I have heard before that Hanzo became a very wealthy person, very rich person.
01:11:09
through a lot of work. And so I asked him, because I heard before that he didn’t travel a business class. And if somebody travels once in a while, I understand, but he travels a lot. And he travels long flights, Brazil, Abu Dhabi, New York. And I asked him, why don’t you travel? I heard this, is it true? said, yeah, it’s true. And I why don’t you travel in business class? Because he could afford it.
01:11:39
That’s why I was asking. And so he goes, do you know how many people, how many families that I can, now first he said, you know how much it costs and let’s say, depending on the trip, right, the one way.
01:11:56
5,000 depending on the one way, right? It depends on the tickets, but anyway, something like that. He do know how much I can help? said, how many families I can help with that money? So you think I’m going to get eight hours or more of comfort on this nice comfy seat while I can feed the family in Brazil or for a whole month. You think I’m gonna trade that eight hours of comfort for one month of.
01:12:25
of like a miracle for a family. And that was just like two slaps in my face, right? So that’s the kind of person that he is, you know, and he is that. And so I believe that Hanzo could have been 10 times, and by the way, he was incredible as a fighter, incredible. But he could have been more than what he was if he had been more selfish in terms of achievements, fighting achievements.
01:12:55
But I believe he did a great bargain because the souls that he touched and the way that the legacy in other people’s hearts and soul that he left while he was here is way more valuable than any medal or any title or any place in the rank that one can possibly have. And I’m very fortunate to have him as an uncle and to have him teach me that constantly.
01:13:23
So that’s why I’m trying my best to go in this way. That’s so powerful. And it’s so true that our legacy is we live as long as the people around us that remember us doing great things. And if we had that mentality, if we had this idea that unless the people around me are succeeding as I succeed, then like you say, what am I doing? It’s very self-serving.
01:13:52
self-centered and like you say, whether it be feeding a family, whether it be victory of art, whether it be writing, these are all these things that force us to become better. But as we become better, it allows us to serve others to a greater capacity at a greater level with more impact. And then what does that do that attracts more people that are cut from that cloth that want to do that. So that’s why, and I’m so excited for the direction you’re going.
01:14:21
Thank you. Thank you. It’s true. The acts that we admire the most in humanity are the history of time is acts of altruism. Yes. And so we should do more of that. That tells us something about us, about society, about humans. There’s nothing that can touch us as the love of a mother.
01:14:48
forgetting about all her needs and everything to take care of this child, right? And the same, know, there’s so many examples. People die for one another every day in the world and somewhere in the world. So those acts of altruism, of selflessness, that correct? Selflessness. Selflessness, yes. Selflessness is what touches, is the only thing that touches us.
01:15:15
When we hear all this guy made this company and he owns, we’re like, that’s cool. But we can look and see a person who owns nothing and shares their last piece of bread. And that touches us in a way that we can’t you know? And so that’s the beauty in life. I believe that if everybody thinks from that, having that as, you know.
01:15:47
the forefront of their mind, the world would be a better place, you know? And I might be a very crazy to dream that and to talk about it, but it’s at least what I feel that it would definitely be a better place than where we are. I absolutely agree. And I think that more importantly, you’re courageous enough to march boldly towards this thing that you know is true for you. We talked about the authentic voice and how important it is.
01:16:17
And what I found is if we don’t listen to that authentic voice, if we don’t listen to the music and respect it, eventually she stopped speaking to us all together. Eventually she says, well, they’re not going to listen. So why am I wasting my time? She will go to the other people that are willing to do that, that are willing to just boldly run towards this thing, just on this inclination. And the fact that you’re willing to do that and the fact that you’re willing to stop competing with the intention of doing this is huge. There’s very
01:16:46
It’s different when some people stop. There’s other things that they have going on. But I think for you to walk in this direction the way that you are. Yeah, I’m excited to see as this develops. And I, if there’s anything at all I can do, whatever I can, anything I can do to help with that. I was going to say, can’t, I can’t speak Portuguese, but if whatever I can do in London, if we, if you want to.
01:17:12
do something with speaking or anything, please let me know. 100 % will definitely do a lot of things. I think that that’s fantastic. So we’ve talked about the worst piece of advice that you’ve heard. What would be the best piece of advice that you could give people that are trying to improve themselves and whatever arena we’re kind of discussing right now. We talked about altruism, which I know is key. Yeah, that is the best piece of advice. I agree.
01:17:38
The worst piece of advice to be selfish and the best is to think about it. And again, it’s cliche and it’s repetitive, but it’s true. Thinking of others, it solves all your problems. When you have issues and you think your life is worse, go feed a person who doesn’t have it. It does actually
01:18:08
make you look at life differently and just like, oh my God, like what am I complaining for? What am I complaining at? And helping those people. Again, you’re gonna be dead in a few years, right? Like in less than 100 years, everybody that is alive on this earth right now is gonna be gone. And so why are you so worried about comfort?
01:18:36
overly worried about comfort. Of course, of course, everybody needs, you know, a level of comfort. And, you know, you need a house, you need many things, right? But what a powerful thing it is to try and provide that for others, right? And maybe, you know, when I talk about this, it might sound like a, you know, I see myself as a perfect
01:19:05
I’m far from it, far, very far. know? Selfish in many ways and I’m just saying what I see, what I think, what I believe is right. It’s not necessarily that I’m doing it, but it’s just what I believe is right. so for me, the best piece of advice is to help others.
01:19:34
I think that’s a great piece of advice. think it also, as you say, it helps us examine how little we really need. just like Hensel’s example, it’s like, if I have enough money to buy this Mercedes Benz, why not just buy this and then take the other money and give it to something else? That money would go a lot further for those people than it would for some sort of status symbol. So I absolutely agree.
01:20:01
When you’re talking about to know the currency of a coin, don’t go to the exchange place. Go to a favela and ask how much is worth the sum for women, their hunger. How much does it cost? That’s how you know the worth of money.
01:20:31
Because I’ve this many times where people think, this is crazy guys on Instagram, right? He was like, oh, you’re going become a billionaire in two months. Follow me and follow this. Sure, my course. Buy my course. And one of the things we say all the time is, you’re not poor. It’s not that this is expensive. It’s just that you have very little money.
01:21:00
In your view, this is expensive. And we’re always thinking, trying to, you know what mean? So instead of going upwards of basing where the money’s worth, try it. Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. I want to be respectful of your time. I’ve loved our conversation. I could talk to you for hours and I know I will talk to you for hours as we go on. Can you tell us your three favorite books that you would recommend to people? Any kind of books?
01:21:29
We’ve already talked about Stephen Pressfield. What’s your favorite Pressfield book? Is it The War of Art? There are some here. me see. They’re not in a specific order, but this one is called Nosola. It’s in Portuguese, Nosola. I believe in English. There’s a movie about it that has some titles. It’s called Astro City. Okay. And it’s by this…
01:22:00
this medium, it’s called Chico Chavier. Chico Chavier, okay. I have recently, Carlos, my great grandfather was spirit, spiritism. He used to study spiritism. But I’ve recently started studying more. And even if you don’t believe it, if you’re watching and you don’t believe it, just…
01:22:30
just for the sake of, you know, the amount of knowledge that there is in this and the others that I’m showing as well. It’s incredible. Just the same way as an atheist would learn tremendously from reading the Bible. So it’s not a matter of believing or not. It’s just, know, when you read so many fiction books, it didn’t happen. Right. So, but I
01:22:59
Me personally, I believe so, but I’m saying just for people out there that sometimes might be limited themselves because of religion and stuff like that. highly recommend this. So, NOSOLA, N-O-S-O-L-A-R. it’s Chico Xavier’s what the Americans would say. So, C-H-I-C-O-X-A-V-I-E-R. Yes. And he, so…
01:23:29
He wrote it, but it’s believed that a spirit wrote through him. So it wasn’t him that wrote it. He was a medium. Excellent. And it was written by Andre Luis, which is his doctor. It’s a beautiful story of this guy that passes. It’s his passing. And then he awakens on the other side. Right? And there’s life after death. And then it’s this journey of…
01:23:58
realization and awakening. It’s beautiful. It’s a beautiful book. I highly, highly recommend it. Excellent. And then the second one that I’m currently reading now, which is the sequel to this, right? It’s a, the follow to this. It’s the messengers. So always messengers. And I’m sure there’s in English most likely. Sure. The messengers by Shiko is the number two. They have 12 of those. There’s plenty.
01:24:28
to go through. But it just continues on that journey. So even if you don’t believe in anything else, just read for the… I’m sure you will learn a great deal from those. You have one of the marks that look like, can you read us a passage and translate to English? Yes. Your favorite passage. Let me open up here for you. This is from the first one. Okay. And…
01:24:57
This is my favorite part, it’s the first few pages of the book. It says, in existence is an act.
01:25:09
A BODY
01:25:13
a vessel, a vest.
01:25:19
century a day a service an experience a triumph in a acquisition acquisition a death a refreshing breath so it’s um it’s how he the view that he’s writing this after he has passed and he’s like oh my god we get caught up in these things in the world
01:25:48
And so, you know, he described, right, the first one is how we perceive this being while we’re here in this realm, right? And it’s a body is a vessel. A century is a day. So in the view of the spirit, it’s beautiful. We just think suffocate, you know, this lifetime they’re so, you know, worked up about is, it’s nothing, right? It’s a day, an experience and it talks about a lot about service and
01:26:17
of others. So it’s a beautiful, beautiful book. Love that. Yeah. And so those two, mean, are, are beautiful. Yeah, there’s all marked up. I was going to say, I can see you got it marked up. So it’s got to be something powerful for you. Although I think that that is, summarizes it quite well. Yeah. And then there’s
01:26:46
gives us a flavor of what it is. exactly. It’s beautiful. And so this one is, of course, of course, the one and only Steven Prestigo, the War of Hearts. I’m sure people who listen to you have heard a great deal of this, I’m assuming, right? Yes, they have. What’s your favorite passage or what’s the favorite part of that for you? Is there a part?
01:27:16
You look at the book, you see this. I was going to say it’s all mine too. It’s all highlighted. So, you know, a book is great when you start to read and then you have to highlight every single page. Everything is yellow. You might as well just highlight it. We’re going to dunk this in highlight.
01:27:40
The whole thing, even the corner of this. Even the edge, yeah. Even the back edge is worthwhile. I agree a thousand percent. Just how powerful this book is. the reason why I love it is that you can apply it to universal, you know, kind of, it’s a universal principles. They can apply on every craft, on every. So it’s just that kick in the ass that everybody needs. Once in a while, not just once, but once in a while.
01:28:09
once or twice a day sometimes, depends on where we’re at. So I would see this, definitely one of my favorite books. And I love that he, he writes it very precisely, right? He has the topics on each page and in this relationship with the outer world that this is not it. So I love that Steven addresses that and
01:28:38
and explains it in a way. So I think those three books for now, there’s a fourth one, but they complement each other. And so since I was sure that people who listen to you have heard of this already, this one. Oh, As a Man Thinketh, come on. As a Man Thinketh. That’s beautiful. What a great book. James Allen, yeah. James Allen. It’s beautiful. And it’s just, you know, the effect of thought.
01:29:07
and how we take it for granted, right? So, as the plant springs from, it could not be without the seed. So every act of a man springs from the hidden seeds of thought and could not have appeared without them.
01:29:33
So yeah, there you go. That’s all you need to know. Yeah. And yeah, so those four. What about you? Oh man. First of all, I love those. think they’re fantastic. And I love that they’re philosophical without having a philosophical niche of saying this is Zen, this is Taoism, this is Stoicism. Because a lot of times today, people are looking at those, like they want that earmark, right? But I’m the same way you are. I like Bruce Lee’s idea of absorbing what is useful, discarding what is useless.
01:30:02
And then adding one is specifically your own. my, and my goal is to absorb truth irrespective of source. So just like you’re saying, if you’re an atheist, but you read the Bible and you get something valuable, if you don’t use that, that’s your fault. You’re an idiot. I don’t care what your belief is, right? If you’re a person who’s Christian or Hindu or whatever, and you hear something that’s true, if you don’t use it, then you’re literally not able to help other people with that knowledge. So again, that’s the selfish ideal.
01:30:31
So if you can listen with this altruistic mentality of saying, what part of that can I take? And this, yes. How can I leverage it to help people? Then no matter what you learn, even if it’s the wrong thing, you can say, I don’t ever want to do that. Yeah. And now you push you the direction. Let me grab mine real fast. yeah. So I’m going to Go ahead. Just before, on what you just said about people struggle, people struggle on picking.
01:31:01
great pieces of knowledge and wisdom from these books is that nowadays one of the biggest problems in society, I think it is, and it has been for, you know, since always in history, is how people cannot, either they have to agree with every single word that is in a book or they don’t agree with it at all, right? So we can have some amazing, right? People are reading this and…
01:31:30
And it has incredible, you know, wisdom and knowledge. And then there’s one pedograph. They don’t agree. They disagree. And you’re like, oh my God, this is horrible. Sucks. The whole book sucks. I’m burning it. The whole thing is, know, so if people allow themselves to, to read things like, I really liked this. I don’t agree with that, but okay. Yeah. It’ll be a whole different, different thing. So don’t, don’t let religion just.
01:32:00
limit your views on anything, Rens. But please, I can’t wait to hear. No, I absolutely agree. And that’s the way I feel about it. It’s like if there’s a piece of banana that’s got a bruise on it, I don’t throw the whole thing out. I just cut off that piece I don’t want or I eat the piece that I want and I get the nutrition from it. And now I can move on with my life. And I don’t have to say, well, all bananas suck and they’re always going to be bruised. It doesn’t mean that at all, for sure. Yeah, exactly. Obviously, the war of art.
01:32:29
This is a heart back that I found because I’m a nerd. then that’s rare. I’ve seen. Well, I’ve talked to Steve and what I want to do is I want to, this is the one that he signed for me that I got. Did he sign yours when you were out there? Man, I, you know what happened to mine? I bought maybe 20 something beautiful. And you got them signed. Yeah.
01:32:57
I them signed once, but I bought 20 something and I just gave them all away. Yes, yes, yes. Beautiful. The one that I got signed, the few ones that I got signed, I gave them away. Oh no. Okay. By accident, still, you know. Order some more. So many of my friends have a bunch of signed copies. love that. That was very altruistic of you to give them the signed ones. So the next time you see Steve, you’re going to sell them. I wish I did it consciously.
01:33:27
It was by accident. Hey, you gifted me the signed copy. I knew that, Merry Christmas, yeah. So the next book that I love is Mastery by Robert Greene. I think you know my story, but being injured, being paralyzed from the neck down, dying on the table, waking up at 40 and trying to figure out what the hell to do with my life, going through suicidal depression.
01:33:57
realizing a lot of the stuff I was doing was selfish or was doing it for the wrong reasons, realizing I was hesitating, that I was, what I was dealing with was resistance, but it was more aggressive. And I call that adversity because it was taking my life. had taken my life on more than one occasion. But the reason I was in that position was because of the way I responded to resistance earlier on in my life, in my opinion.
01:34:24
I finally was able to recover after a year and a half of physical and occupational therapy. And when I got out, this was the book that had come out by Robert Green. he’s so going back to the martial arts is what I wanted to do, but I didn’t really have at that point, the physical capacity. I still have like numbness in my hands and my feet, but he says, and I was in chiropractic school before I was injured. the goal was to finish my degree when I got back after I served the military.
01:34:53
My great uncle passed away. He was my biggest male role model besides my father. After he passed, I wanted to do what he did. And then when I would come back, I could finish my degree, the GI, I’d be able to pay for all my debt, and then I could serve the world with my hands. But Robert Green says in here, he says, when you don’t know where to go, go back to the beginning.
01:35:17
And so for me in our childhood, the beginning, the thing that I love, I started doing martial arts when I was 11. It was taekwondo, but what I loved about it was the martial arts had philosophy naturally woven within it. You had a lesson. If you don’t keep your hand up, you get hit in the face. If you don’t focus, you lose your balance. All these things that were very simple for an 11 year old, but we continue to build on those. And so going back to philosophy and martial arts is what made sense to me.
01:35:46
that led me back to teaching martial arts again, that led me back to learning about these things that led to coaching, that led to speaking, that led to a woman wagging her finger at me after I’d spoken and said, I want to buy your book. Ma’am, I don’t have a book. Explaining to me how dare I have a story like that and not have a book. She had a granddaughter that was going through adversity, that was going through a divorce with an abusive partner. She said,
01:36:14
If you could just write this down and give it, put it in a book, I could give it to my granddaughter and it would help her. Oh my God. And so talk about feeling like it’s the, it’s the muse, it’s the universe saying, I know you don’t want to write this book. I know you don’t know how to write anything, but you need to. And so I tried to imitate the best I could was Steven Pressfield did and what Robert Green was doing and just try to speak for my authentic voice and use little experiences in my life as a way to help others.
01:36:44
that led to the TEDx talk, that led to all these things. But again, lots of times we have to have that resistance or that adversity kind of punch us in the face and say, hey, are you paying attention? Because adversity doesn’t care about your opinion. It shows up at a NASA the most inopportune time without apology. It doesn’t care what you want. And it doesn’t take no for an answer. And if we don’t listen, eventually it comes back stronger and harder.
01:37:12
We don’t listen to the muse, it goes further away and the voice gets shorter and quieter. So we have to respect it. And if that means that right before we fall asleep, we have an idea, we better write it down because we’re not going to remember it in the morning. If we have that idea in the shower and we’re like, I’ll remember that, we’re not. You need to jot it down, put it in your phone, whatever it is. But that’s where the nugget is. That’s where that seed is planted as a man thinketh. And that gives us the ability to continue to cultivate that thing. And it may happen the next day, it may happen a month after that.
01:37:42
But once we have it down, we can begin to do the work and put it together in a way that if it only helps one person, then we’ve done our job and it was worth the effort. And that’s why we do what we do. The last one that I love is the book, the Dao De Jing. Beautiful. That was beautiful. Amazing. Right. I love it. The Dao De Jing for me was the book. I tried to read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius when I was young and I hated it.
01:38:10
It had a lot of wordiness. sounded like the Daoist. Whenever my head, didn’t have any context, but as I was leaving the philosophy section and I’m 12 at this point, as I’m leaving, I was 12 when I was trying to read these things. Yeah. So it, it didn’t work for me, but I saw this book faced out the Dao De Jing and it was another version of it. It was a Stephen Mitchell’s version, but it had the Chinese characters, which reminded me of the martial arts school.
01:38:40
And so I pick up the book and I open it up and on the 27th page it says, continue to sharpen your blade and it will go dull. So even at 12, that sort of made sense to me. it says, continue to sharpen your blade and it will go dull, continue to fill your cup and it will hold no more. If you care about the opinions of others, you will forever be their prisoners.
01:39:11
Oh, that’s beautiful. So at that young age, I was like, you know what? I don’t know anything else, but I can read this little book. It’s very simple. It’s 83 pages, but I could read a page in the morning. I think about that thought all day and see where I would see the lesson. Read it again that night. And then the next day, do the next one. And so it was my way to actually take a lesson, look for it in real life, see where I found it at night, reflect upon it.
01:39:40
and then go through the whole thing. then within three months, I got through the whole thing and I was like, wow, I’ll do it again. And then I learned something new each time. So, and then I saw it in martial arts and then I saw it in people and I saw it in, it helped me call bullshit on myself to areas where I thought that I was making progress, but maybe I was repeating the mistake as you would say, as Hensel would say. Yes. So it was beautiful. Those are incredible. So those are beautiful. And they’re
01:40:10
They’re foundational and we can take from them what we want. And then once you, we had these foundations, like you say, now we can go in these other directions, find what, what feels true for us. Sometimes it’s stuff that wakes us up. Sometimes it’s stuff that angers us, but it’s, it’s designed to do that to make us really question who am I? What’s important to me? Am I chasing this thing for me or for what other people want? And how long am I willing to do that? How long am I able to do that?
01:40:41
It’s great introspection. People should ask this more often. I agree. And again, just, know, what you’re doing through this, through this conversation, podcast, it is an incredible way to give back and ignite that question in people, in our own people, and get them to, you know what, let me look into this and it sounds, you know, interesting and it’s beautiful.
01:41:10
definitely a very high way of getting back. Well, thank you. And the nice thing is we get to have a great conversation in process. Yes, 100%. Absolutely, my friend. please tell me more about your life. And so guys, now I’m interviewing him. Conversation should always be both ways. Reciprocal, agree. Absolutely. What made you, what ignited
01:41:38
this passion for philosophy and for character development within you, which you can remember. Yeah, my parents were divorced when I was eight. And so my biggest male role model besides my dad was my great uncle. And he was in the military, he’s in special forces, but he was always that very quiet, you know, humble guy, let your actions be, carry, you know, walk softly, but carry a big stick tight thing. And
01:42:08
A lot of this philosophy that I saw that he had, if you look at it now, you could say it’s stoicism, but it was more about this idea of, know, actions, not words, you know, don’t have a big mouth, be humble. And he would always say things like, you know, you have two ears and one mouth for a reason. Like you should be listening twice as much and speaking half as much. And he also told me, said, and this is just here in Oklahoma, right? You would see some guy talking real loud and
01:42:38
My uncle wouldn’t say anything. And I was like, you know, why don’t you say anything? He’s like, man, if I’m, if I’m talking while this person’s talking, I don’t learn anything. But if I shut my mouth, I learned anything I want to learn. So those things made a lot of sense to me. And then that went back to martial arts. Um, Taekwondo, karate and Oklahoma was big, but even then there was the philosophy within that. And I would see these upper belts that were supposed to be humble, but yet you could feel the ego.
01:43:07
when they would spar or if they didn’t do well or the excuses that they would come up with to justify not performing well. And at that young age, I could see, well, this guy’s full of shit or this person claims that they’re doing these things, but like you said, off the mats, they’re not doing it. So I could see that pretty quickly. And then I saw the more that I studied these philosophies, the more I could see introspection into the art and then the individual.
01:43:37
And that’s what led me down these paths and the Dao Jing was great and that led me to certain aspects of Zen, but a lot of it then, like you said, there was a lot of kind of religious stuff with it. And, you know, I don’t, I’ve wanted everybody to study whatever religion they want, whatever feels true for them. But to me, it seemed like it was so like, you have to do this and you have to do that. You know, you have to follow this path and you can’t eat meat and you have to do this. And to me, that didn’t really seem to
01:44:07
make a whole lot of sense. just wanted to try to absorb wisdom. So that was my beginning to my path for me. Beautiful. I love what you said first. You said it was your uncle, right? Yes, my great uncle. And okay, your great uncle. Great uncle, yes. This makes me think of sometimes we think of these characters that we don’t think much of, but people in your life, if you think, if you really think about the people around you, how they have impacted your life.
01:44:37
and how, you know, we have the same in Portuguese. Saints from your neighborhoods, saints from home, it’s how you say it translated, saints from home do no miracles. Only the saints from elsewhere, right? Yes, yes. So it’s beautiful that, you know, your great uncle was the one that got you, you your eyes turned on to philosophy and then to martial arts.
01:45:05
And in martial art, you mentioned about ego, right? Yes. And what if you were to pick what traits would you say that are very common in the martial art academy? You know, in average regarding negative and positive. So people that go into, you know, in the martial art academy, they can see and they can learn and they maybe try to avoid and what would you say?
01:45:35
You know, thinking of philosophy as the base. Yeah, that’s a great question. I think that a lot of academies talk about humility, but then when it’s time for them to actually be humble, it doesn’t always happen. So understand that humility is important, but also understand that it’s probably one of the most difficult things to apply and understand that we’re all human. So even if that person is teaching the lesson,
01:46:01
They’re just a vessel. It doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re going to practice to the best of their ability. So as you were saying before, the lesson is true, but the person may be telling you about it may be flawed. So try to learn the wisdom from that. So being humble is important and there’s both sides to that. So be honest if you’re not being humble. The next one would be this idea of being, having this empathy for others.
01:46:30
having this compassion for others. So if you’re practicing with somebody, understand that if I am harming this person or if I’m practicing in a way that’s not conducive to them continuing the art, if I hurt them, now I don’t have a training partner. Or now that person doesn’t come back. Or now that person doesn’t want to train with me anymore. And then I notice few and fewer people want to drill or roll with me. And now that actually makes me
01:47:00
not able to continue to grow the way that I need to. So understand that with a partner, it’s a relationship. You want them to win so that they allow you to continue to win in a drilling component and even in sparring. The fight’s not on the mats, guys. The fight’s out there. And so try to protect your partner. Try to protect your partner as best you can. And you’ll find that they will give you the same sort of compassion when you train as well.
01:47:30
And then also understand that the technique is only as good as the person that’s willing to apply it. Kind of like we said before, you have an incredible arm bar and you can teach me the arm bar. But if I don’t pay attention, if I don’t drill, if I don’t actually follow all of the steps, if there’s five steps to the arm bar and I try to do it in three, that’s not your fault because you taught me correctly. It’s my fault because I’m not actually applying it in the steps that you said to do it. So I think those are.
01:47:59
Both of those are on both sides. The technique is correct, but my application is probably what’s flawed. Humility is correct, but my application of it is probably flawed. I say that I care about my partner, but then when it’s my turn to throw them, I don’t let them break fall. Or I know they’re tapping, but I still keep the crank on. That’s selfish, that’s ego, and I’m not really doing it. So in that case, I’m a hypocrite. And in that case, that person may get hurt because of it. That’s one of the worst things one can be,
01:48:29
Absolutely. By far. Absolutely. And what would you say to someone that, because I believe that people struggle a lot about when we talked a little about that, of the struggle to pick out great things from it, not only from books, but even beyond from people, right? I see that if somebody does something bad to them or they do something they don’t agree or maybe they have advice or something.
01:48:58
They might think, that person is full of, you and they’re worth nothing. And from what you’re saying, it sounds like you have this, you have developed this ability of no matter where you are, you know, and who you’re with, you can pick out the best out of that person or the worst and analyze it. How do you suggest to develop this and tools and maybe, you
01:49:28
just to develop this skill, which I believe is a skill. Absolutely. I think the skill comes in, first of all, being resilient and strong, not like physically, but having a thicker skin. And what I mean by that is in the military, lots of times the way that they correct you is not always the most like coddling and, fella, could you come over here and try to do that? They’re usually in your face, they’re yelling, they’re screaming. But
01:49:56
If you base your identity around the idea that I’m going to be the best student that I possibly can. And this person may be berating me and throwing all this stuff at me. But if I can find that nugget, like if he says, you completely screwed up and you suck and you’re a waste of humanity. Why did you do that? If he’s correct, maybe the presentation sucks. Maybe the way that he told me sucks. But if what he’s telling me is true that I don’t have attention to detail and that my attention to
01:50:25
lack of attention to detail may get somebody killed in combat, then even if I don’t like the way he said it, he’s still correct. But if I allow my emotion and my ego and my lack of humility to get in there and I say, well, I’m not gonna listen to anything that that sergeant said, because he was an asshole when he told me. It doesn’t change the fact that he was still correct. I need to have this attention to detail. Also, he pointed out that if I don’t have that attention to detail, it may hurt somebody else or make it somebody else killed in combat.
01:50:54
which may be why he’s so passionate about telling me about it. So if I can step back and do that and understand that there has to be a lesson to be learned in this, then no matter what the interaction is, I can gain that. But if I’m not resilient enough to take that kind of verbal kind of beat down, then I’ll never learn anything. And the only person I listen to are people that are gonna constantly like reaffirm me. And unfortunately in this world,
01:51:21
A lot of times the truth comes from places that we don’t normally expect it to come from. And it’s not always going to be coddling. And so if we have to only accept truth when it’s almost like sugar, right? If it’s only sweet, then the salty things or the things that are like our vegetables are not going to be what we need to eat. There won’t be what we want, but we have to get those things. So it has to be, can I detach from this? Can I breathe?
01:51:51
Can I ask myself?
01:51:54
Did his words actually physically hurt me? Where’s the evidence that this is harming me? And the only thing that makes it harm me is the fact that my opinion is that I didn’t like what he said. So if I throw the baby out with the bath water, just like you said, if I the entire book out, because there was one statement that I didn’t agree with, I dare you to find anybody that you love with all your heart and soul that you have a lot in common with. I guarantee if we went down enough questions on a questionnaire, there’d be one thing that they would disagree with about
01:52:23
with you and all of a sudden you could turn that mountain into a molehill and now you would never talk to that person again. other thing is understand that this thing that I’m so vitally like against right now, maybe in five years, maybe I’ll change my opinion entirely. Maybe something will happen. Maybe I’ll have an experience that will help help me have another perspective that shows me, you know what? I would have died on that hill five years ago, but now not so much.
01:52:53
That’s beautiful. Yeah. I heard before, I forgot who said it, who spoke this is, but if five years go by and you’re still thinking the same way, you’re going to change your mind on anything, you just wasted five years. I absolutely agree. I love what you said about building the thick skin, right? But it’s a challenge. You explained it already.
01:53:20
It’s a challenge for most people, I believe, to build the thick skin, but at the same time, let things go through, right? Sometimes they just feel that, you know, that barrier and they’re like, okay, I’m tough and nothing can touch me, you know? So I believe that that’s one thing that happens to most people. Either they’re super extremely sensitive to whatever comes their way or they go completely opposite. It’s very hard to do what you’re saying.
01:53:49
You know, which is great. is, but I think that that comes from the martial arts. helps me. It’s helped me learn that having strength and resilience is important, but by doing that, it gives me like self-awareness. If I’m physically strong and somebody has fallen down now, I have the strength to pick them up. I don’t have to worry about myself because I can pick them up if they’re emotionally unstable. And if I am very resilient in my emotions and I’m just equal all the time.
01:54:19
I can allow them to say what they need to say. They’re clearly projecting something else. It’s not about me at all. They need to get this out. And whether it be a stranger on the street or a person that I love deeply, I can understand that it’s not about me and I can just let it roll off my back. If they’re financially in turmoil, if I’m financially secure, I can give somebody this money or I can buy this thing for them, not alone, not with an expectation that they’re going to give it back to me.
01:54:46
but I have the financial legs to stand on, to give it to them. So now they can have that. So again, if we, just like we were talking about before, if we can continually build all of these facets of ourselves, this warrior that has ethos, that has strength, that has resilience, that has compassion, that has love, that has humility, that can also fight when there’s barbarians at the gate, that is what we need. These Renaissance men, these abilities to do these things. And I feel that sometimes we get fixated on
01:55:16
just one of those facets. And unfortunately, that may be very strong, but it means that we’re weak in all these other areas. And that’s where we’re going to be attacked in our weaknesses. Beautiful. We didn’t agree more. And the one question I usually tend to ask friends, and it tells a lot about them, but it’s always interesting, always intrigues me, is if you don’t mind me asking, who is the person you admire the most? And it can be someone.
01:55:45
as you said, like your great uncle or something, it doesn’t have to be a public figure. can be a, you know, and I would actually, if you could be someone not a public figure, someone near you, who do you admire the most? And then why? What do you admire the most in them?
01:56:09
My father, I admire him tremendously.
01:56:16
When my parents are divorced, he was the one that told me that the divorce was happening. He tried to take it on the chin, so to speak. My mother’s passed away a couple of years ago, but, um, thank you. Um, but my father always taught me that idea that he worked in the petroleum industry until he retired. So there were times when if a petroleum transformer went down and they would call him, you get up and you go.
01:56:45
Doesn’t matter what the weather’s like, doesn’t matter what time it is, doesn’t matter where it is. And he had that resilience, that self-sufficiency. He had his experience and he had whatever was in his, his truck and he would have to go get this thing going. And I saw that time and again. And then I also saw as I got older, when I went through my first divorce and I was injured and I finally recovered, that really made us have those.
01:57:15
those conversations where he needs to know who he is, his first kiss, his first heartbreak.
01:57:23
what he looks forward to getting to know him as a man, as a human, not just as my dad, understanding that he did the best that he could, where he was with what he knew that his generation came from the depression. So there are certain things that they passed on to us, not as a limitation or not in a meaning, not in a way that was like mean spirited, but that’s what they knew. Yeah. And so.
01:57:53
They did the best that they could with what they had. He did an incredible job in my opinion. He supported me in the martial arts, a thousand percent, one in me. I got a chance to go to nationals and compete. And it took a certain amount of like, you know, I’d mow lawns or do whatever, whatever I wasn’t able to make. He was able to match it so that I could go and try to live that dream. So that’s why I, that’s why I love him because
01:58:21
He’s always been there. He hasn’t been perfect. He’s told me time and again that he’s not perfect, but in that imperfection is where we find.
01:58:31
that capacity to love them even more in my opinion. So. That’s beautiful. That’s beautiful. That tells a lot about you. think that’s, I’ve gotten some great, great answers from this question. Thank you. Who’s the person you admire the most and why? It tells a lot about the person, you know. Can I ask you the same question? Yes. I would say Hanzo. And because of how
01:59:02
how big his heart is and what we talked about earlier about how there are some crazy stories of people who had done him wrong tremendously and he just kept helping them over and over and over. Not once, but many times. It could call him not very smart from doing that, but in most cases eventually the
01:59:31
you it touched them, it touched that person, And they opened up and it’s beautiful. mean, it’s kind of there’s countless stories about him, but the handless altruism is the thing that I admire the most in him. yeah, no, so it’s one matter. It’s what I’m concerned about someone. This is what I value the highest is that the
01:59:58
There’s many qualities, but I believe altruism and their ability. And again, you can’t judge, but some people have it more than others. Some people can develop more than others. Some people have been taught more than others. So there’s many reasons why, but he was definitely the man. I think that’s amazing too, because it’s easy to act altruistically when the person reciprocates and they love it. But when you do it just for the sake of doing it.
02:00:27
without expectation and then like you said, maybe there’s venoms that they still spew at you and you say, I don’t care. I’m acting altruistically because of what I believe, not because of what you’re doing. I believe that takes a tremendous amount of strength and resilience. Yes. True. And people are altruistic all the time. They have to prioritize their kid in so many things, know, everything. Like, I can’t even begin to, right? have seen plenty of…
02:00:56
babies growing up around me because the family is huge, Yes. They’re carpentry with 33, and then they carry it on. Now it’s over 300 people in the family. Wow. I’ve seen plenty of childhood, and I’ve seen a lot of altruism from mothers and fathers, right? So people are more altruistic than they think. It’s just, how can I expand this? How can I pass this on to my kids so they don’t only experience it when they
02:01:26
or parents themselves, how can they experience earlier? And that, yeah. But that’s for me, I would say he’s the one that, again, I admire many, many people for different reasons, specifically that on him is one of my favorite ones. May I ask you one last question? You can ask me as many questions as you want, my friend. Perfect.
02:01:55
If you don’t mind me asking, it’s a sensitive place. But from your injury, what were the most pivotal changes in opinion and essential ideas that changed within you, right? Before and after the injury, if you don’t mind. No, of course. So this sort of octanon-verbal mentality. So I used to be that person that would read books, pat myself on the back.
02:02:24
smart, look how well read I am. I can regurgitate this quote from Marcus Aurelius or for this person. And I would try to impress people with how smart I was. But I wasn’t living it. Like I could tell other people to do it. I could give them advice and they go, wow, that’s profound. But I knew deep down that all this stuff I was doing that I knew I wasn’t executing on. And so I got divorced at 38.
02:02:53
My great uncle passed two weeks after that. I joined the military. Have to get a, they had to sign a waiver to get me in cause I’m so old, but I’m in good enough shape and my test scores are good enough that they let me in. So up until my injury, I thought that knowing acquiring knowledge was enough. I thought that accumulation was the same as utilization and it’s not. It’s like watching you compete and seeing the technique that you do.
02:03:24
That’s not the same as me knowing it just because I’ve seen you do it many, many times does not mean that I can do it. But that’s what I thought if I read enough of these, these quotes. So when I’m lying there in the bed, paralyzed from the neck down, when I wake up in the ICU and they say, Hey, you flatline on the table a couple of times. The good news is you get to live to tell the tale. The bad news is at 40 years old, this is how you’re going to be for the rest of your life. I went through all of that denial, anger, bargaining.
02:03:53
the five stages, Kubler-Ross, but I was angry at the most at myself and anger directed inwards as depression. So I literally wanted to take my life, but I couldn’t even act on it because I was paralyzed.
02:04:11
So again, the universe, the muse, God, this is unfair. I’m a good person. Why is this happening to me?
02:04:22
And eventually I just got to that understanding that, and it doesn’t matter what I want. It doesn’t matter what should have happened or where I ought to be. What matters is where I’m at right now and what am I willing to do to move forward.
02:04:39
And like you said, lots of times the right thing is not convenient. It’s not easy. As a matter of fact, it’s supposed to have resistance built into it. It’s supposed to have diversity there. I believe that those two things are there to guard the valuable things that we’re supposed to be doing.
02:04:55
So we shouldn’t be surprised when we find adversity. We should be surprised when we do not.
02:05:00
Because if that path doesn’t have some sort of resistance in it, it’s probably not a place that I want to go.
02:05:07
And so for me going through that and then understanding the thing that I had to do is I had to find something to counteract the anger. And for most people, the opposite of anger is, is love. But for me, I didn’t have a lot of love around me. I had to find something that I could actually execute on. And to me that was gratitude, but I mean like no bullshit gratitude. So for me, I finally realized that if I’d have been deployed in Afghanistan,
02:05:37
For every one man that’s injured, takes two men to pull him to safety. So that means if I had been injured in Afghanistan when my neck, when my injury blew up.
02:05:47
Other guys on my team would have had to compromise to help me. Another team would have had to come down and they would have been put in harm’s way. And then if you ever seen any movie with the military when a Chinook flies in the big helicopter, that’s a huge target. So after four months of being angry, I finally realized, wow, I’m lucky. Not that I’m lucky, but I was grateful that nobody else was injured. And that’s when I realized that in my opinion, genuine gratitude is when you can be happy that something happened.
02:06:17
for other people and it has no influence on you. It doesn’t help you at all, but you can still be grateful that it happened to them. And that to me is what I call 360, no BS gratitude because we can do gratitude practices and write down all the stuff we’re happy for, all the things we’re grateful for. But lots of times that’s just a celebration of what we have. If we can find gratitude in the face of adversity, and when do we need it the most in the face of adversity?
02:06:46
So if I can condition myself to say, this person in traffic or whatever else is going on in my life, what is the gift in this? What is it teaching me? What is it shining a bright light on that I don’t want to look at maybe? Because the answer that we seek is found in the adversity that we’re avoiding in every aspect of our life. And if we can have the courage to lean into that thing and be uncomfortable, that’s when we can really see the areas that we need to improve on. So for me,
02:07:16
radical, no BS gratitude. And then this idea that I get to walk now, I get to do things now that I wish I could have done. And I swear that if I was ever able to get out that bed, I would never compromise, never hesitate. And I would live life on my own terms, whatever that looked like, and I’d never go back. And so I still have some numbness in my hands and my feet, but I am tethered to that adversity. So I’m grateful for that, and it reminds me.
02:07:46
all the time. So that keeps me moving towards those things. And so even that woman wagging her finger at me or even those speaking events where my first speaking events, somebody said, Hey, would you come up and tell your story? I didn’t know what they meant. I show up to the place and there’s 200 people and there’s lights and a mic and I was like, Oh, who’s speaking? They’re like, you are dumbass. That’s like, that’s what we wanted. But when you’re up there speaking from your heart and just telling what happened,
02:08:14
It’s simple. And then people would ask questions. where that’s to me was valuable because now the Q and a component and they say, well, what did you do? And how’d you do this? And it’s like, listen, I’m just talking to you from what happened to me. And this is what I did. And I was just as honest as I could possibly be. And then that helped them and they could take that nugget and they could apply it and they could take that piece and they could give it to somebody else. And that’s when I saw.
02:08:42
the value of what happened. That’s when I saw the value of writing a book because now people all over the world can have it. Even the audible book, the audible book for me, I didn’t want to do it because I’m kind of that old school guy. You know, like what we’re doing now where it’s like, want to people to read the book and if they don’t smell it and mark it up and they don’t deserve it, you know, I kind of had that like ego my mind, that old school kind of idea. But then when I started doing podcasts, people are like, man, I’m not really good at reading books.
02:09:12
But if you would read this on audible, I have a hour commute to work. And so now I need to meet that person where they are. So I’m a blue belt. I would hope that if you were teaching me, you would meet me where I am and not expect me to be able to flow beautifully from arm bar to triangle to umbilata back to triangle. Right? So you would meet me where I am. So if I’m not doing that, it’s my ego that’s stopping. So who am I to do that? I
02:09:41
write this book and I’m not going to help people with it. The same thing with speaking, the same thing with coaching, the same thing with all this, the conversation we’re having now. It’s about how can I help other people? How can I dethrone my ego or how can I give it to them in a way where I meet them where they are? And we meet people where they are, but we also have to keep walking on our own path too. And sometimes that means we don’t, they’re not with us.
02:10:10
But the impact that we had at that moment will be for as long as they remember it, as long as they apply it. Beautiful. Amazing. Incredible story. The last bit that you said reminded me of again, Luciana, Luciana, Elena, the last one. And she talks about there was an experiment where they put a bunch of…
02:10:38
actually not about but two rats on a bucket full of water, rats. And they let the rats there, a little bit cruel, but they let the rats there try to swim out of the water, right? And they swam, they’re counting, right? And they swam for, I don’t know, five minutes.
02:11:03
And so when the rats kind of gave up of exhaustion, they were about to die, they drowned, they took them out and put them elsewhere. So they get the rats again and they dumped them in the water. But this time they were swimming, they were swimming. And then, you know, before they drowned, somebody picked them up and put them out.
02:11:31
before they finally drown, right? So they got the same rat that was saved, and let’s say they’re saved five minutes, right? And they put it back in the water and it swam four times more than it did before. Because it had the hope that it was gonna be saved, because it was saved once. So when you help someone, you might think that you’re helping them that just one time, but…
02:12:00
you’re helping them for life because every single time that they go through hardship, will, you know, without consciously, but they had, they have been saved before. It might as well happen again. they will swim hard to keep, you know, to, to, to stay alive in some cases, right? So when you help somebody once you’re not helping them, just want to help them for life. Yeah. I love that.
02:12:30
That’s so powerful. Right? It is, The other beautiful thing is…
02:12:37
I know you’ve had people help you, when you’ve been down and somebody’s helped you up, then you never forget that person. You never forget that feeling. Yeah. so it goes back to what we were talking about. Right. Exactly. It’s like, I want to be the person that can pass that on. That’s my obligation. That’s my responsibility. Right. Who am I to have this experience and not try to do something with it to help other people? It becomes that vessel. It’s the way that I can go and give that to them. And even when I speak, I’ve got
02:13:06
People that talk and they’ll, people will say, well, I have to go get this speech and I’m nervous. And they say, what do you do? And I say, well, I’m the vessel, the content, what’s in here is what I’m giving. So it’s not about me at all. I’m just trying to give this to people and help them. What I also found is like what we’re doing now, this is a concentrated conversation, right? We’re not just talking about a bunch of superfluous stuff. That doesn’t mean anything.
02:13:36
With tea, if we put it in a cup and we let it steep, we let it sit there, it gets stronger and stronger and stronger. Yes. And now when I go to serve others, we can’t give from an empty cup, right? We can’t pour from an empty cup. But if we do our work properly, what we have is so concentrated that now I don’t have to pour out my entire cup now.
02:14:02
I can give little droplets to people. can use a little spoon. Beautiful. That’s beautiful. And I can give it to everybody. It’s still just as concentrated. I don’t lose anything. I gain things. And then it just can, it’s this vessel that is continually refilling over and over and over again. And that’s the way I look at it. It’s not superfluous, right? It’s superficial. It’s, yeah, that’s beautiful. That’s the goal. And that was one of them. What a great conversation, huh? That was great.
02:14:29
I loved it. I loved it so much. Thank you for asking the questions. Like I said, I could talk to you for hours and I know I will continue talking to you in other times as well for sure. absolutely. Same. Absolutely. That’s great. Thank you, brother. I’m glad I got to ask you a few things as well. Man, you can ask me whatever you want to, whenever you want to. Even if we don’t record it, we get to. But as we close out, where can we go find out more about you? Where can we find out about what you’re up to?
02:14:58
Where would you have us go? Where would you direct us? you’re on my Instagram is it is at Ray Ron Gracie. So R R R when Gracie G R A C I E. And that’s where I post most of the, the, the stuff I’m, you know, I’m currently doing have a website as well. Ray Ron Gracie.com. Um, but I would, I would refer to the, to the, to both actually, but mainly the Instagram usually stays up to date more.
02:15:28
website. And we’ll put all that in the show notes. absolutely. I love it. Absolutely. Listen, thank you so much. I know that you’ve got a lot going on. I appreciate your time. I respect everything you do. Nothing but love and respect for everything you’re doing my friend. Thank you for everything. Thank you very much. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you for listening to this episode of Acta Non Verba.
