In order for the world to see your value, you must first value yourself. In this episode of Acta Non Verba, Nicole Lapin reveals how financial education, self-care, and internal dialogue are critical for your personal and professional growth. During our conversation Nicole and I discuss how your body can warn you of burnout, how your internal dialogue impacts the way you speak to those close to you, and how Nicole learned from personal experience that self-care can be the biggest asset or liability of your career.
Nicole Lapin is the New York Times Bestselling author of Rich Bitch and Boss Bitch. She is the host of the nationally syndicated business reality competition show, Hatched. She has been an anchor on CNN, CNBC and Bloomberg. Her third book, Becoming Super Woman, is out now.
You can connect with Nicole in the following ways:
Website: nicolelapin.com
Order Nicole’s Books:
Episode Transcript:
00:26
Thank you so much for joining us today. I’m your host, Marcus Aurelius Anderson. And let me tell you just a little bit about our guest today, who’s not just a financial expert, but she also teaches millions how to put themselves first.
00:54
while banishing burnout in both work and life. Nicole Lapin is the New York Times bestselling author of Rich Bitch and Boss Bitch. She is the host of the nationally syndicated business reality competition show Hatched and has been the anchor on CNN, CNBC and Bloomberg. Nicole’s third book, Becoming Superwoman is out now and I highly recommend grabbing a copy of it, not only for yourself but for other people that can benefit from it over at nicolelapin.com. Nicole, thank you so much for being here today and welcome to the show.
01:24
Marcus, I want to be with you every single day. Don’t you threaten me with a good time. I will get on a plane to New York right now. So thank you so much for being here. You have so much going on. New York Times bestselling author. Your book is out now. What is the biggest misconception that you find, not just with female entrepreneurs, but people in general when it comes to being able to get their finances in order or being able to kind of get their lives in order? Because it seemed like there’s so much going on. Everybody’s distracted. Everybody’s multitasking in today’s DNA. The first thing is that a man is not a financial plan.
01:53
And you can tweet that, you can post that, you can sing that from the repop. And what’s crazy is that, yeah, for the last five or so years, so Rich Fitch came out, gosh, four years ago in March, then Boss Fitch came out two years later in March. And I wanted this one to come out two years later in March. Why? For no other reason, but besides I wanted to wrap it in a little bow.
02:21
Then I had quite a turning point in my life, which I’m happy to tell you about. But in that time, I traveled the country, traveled the world, and I was preaching rich bitchness and boss bitchdom to so many women. And I would still have like moms come up to me and say, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get all this like financial empowerment, literary see stuff. But I just want my daughter to marry a rich man. I’m like, girl, go back and look.
02:50
like the sheriff quote saying, my mom wanted me to marry a rich man. And she said, I am a rich man. And so I really think that we, even though we’re living in 2020, we need to rethink what our power is in terms of getting our financial lives together once and for all. That’s so powerful. And again, it’s if we’re looking outside of ourselves and hoping that somebody is going to come save us in any way, shape or form. Not only are we disempowering ourselves, but we’re actually bringing that kind of victim mentality, which holds us back from.
03:19
every other facet of our life, right? I mean, listen, I put a right-handed wedding ring on my finger. I walked into Cartier, I bought it my damn self, I put my credit card down, they said, who’s paying for this? I said, me, sir. Are you getting married? I said, yes, I am. I’m marrying myself until death do us part. Literally, you are the only person you will spend the rest of your life with. So you might as well get down with that right now. Even if I have a ring on this other hand, which I…
03:46
do not right now, this will always be on my right hand because I think the most important relationship is the one you have with yourself. So whether it’s in a business environment, whether it’s personally, if you have not taken care of your side of the street, and all of my books are 12-step plans for a reason, the first step is admitting you have a problem, but also because you can only control 50% of every relationship and that’s yourself. So before you do anything else, you gotta get your own side of the screen.
04:15
No, that’s so true. So how are people able to start kind of figuring out what they’re capable of compared to what they allow that other 50% of not only the relationship, but of the world come into play? You know, I think they don’t say, put your oxygen mask on first on the plane. And I feel like I live on the plane these days. That’s a waste of time before takeoff. It’s totally true. You can’t be of service to anyone else if you’re crashing and burning yourself.
04:40
You know, I thought that I would be happy when I got to a certain level of success. I grew up in a super broken home, first generation American, immigrants who were basically criminals. I had to bail my parents out of jail with cash and forget about learning about stocks or bonds or any of that stuff. I’m the least likely person to be a money expert. So if I can do this for sure, anyone can do it. But I thought I would be happy when I became an anchor on CNN or I became an anchor.
05:10
on CNBC or I made a certain level of salary. And I got there and almost immediately I choose the goalpost on myself and I wasn’t happy. And so once I got my dream job, which is high-class problems to get when you’re 21, I wasn’t happy. I raised the bar yet again. I got to that bar. I wanted one book. One book was enough, not two books. And I never got my brain to the other side of balance or happiness. And as you know, studies have shown
05:38
that we have this equation wrong. It’s not actually success that will bring us happiness. It’s happiness and balance that will bring us more success. And so after my second book, I, you know, you read this lovely bio that is part of my story for sure. But the other part that people didn’t see is that I was totally crashing and burning. And I looked like…
06:01
I had it together. I looked really put together on the outside, but on the inside I wasn’t as put together as I looked. And the complete mental, emotional, physical breakdown that stemmed from severe burnout, I didn’t even know what burnout was. I didn’t even know how to classify what was going on. And an emergency admittance to the hospital that made me rethink how I was working and made me rethink everything. See, and that’s what happens. Whether we want to or not, life will slap us in the face and get our attention.
06:30
And if we don’t pay attention the first time, we can override and we can push through, but then eventually the next slap in the face is bigger and those problems keep surfacing and keep presenting themselves until we learn the lesson. So I’m glad that you learned the lesson and I’m sorry that you had to go through that hardship, but the most important thing is now, just like you were saying as well, what’s in the future is fine, but if we can’t enjoy the present, if we can’t really just take our time to enjoy that, that’s when we’re gonna continually chase something
07:00
will never be able to catch. How are you able to stay present and really enjoy your success now? You know, it’s interesting because all of the lessons that I talk about in Rich Bitch and Boss Bitch around getting your finances and your career together are valid. You know, how to network, how to email, how to negotiate, all of those things are super important, but nothing matters, you know.
07:24
4 o’clock in the morning, I remember I was in the psych ward with my shrink and my assistant canceling my entire schedule, like canceling everything. And at that point, I realized nothing else mattered. If I wasn’t good, nothing was going to go on. I was my own business card. And so I could have all the sweet negotiating skills in the history of the world. But if I felt like I wasn’t my complete present self…
07:54
then forget about it. None of those things really mattered. And so that’s when I came across the thesis of this last book, Becoming Superwoman, that self-care, I believe, is the biggest asset or liability in your career. And I use business terms on purpose. I rewrite dictionaries in the back of my books because I think it’s all jargon. And the biggest hurdle to getting your finances together is just speaking the language. That’s the most intimidating part. And if I…
08:23
I could speak it for sure anyone can. We just don’t have a Rosetta Stone growing up. So that’s why I try to speak the way that I’m talking to now in terms of demystifying business and finances. But yeah, when it’s on point, when self-care is on point, and that doesn’t mean like manicures, pedicures, and deep tissue massages. I mean, Marcus, I love a good manicure just like the next girl, but it means like going to therapy, going to the doctor, really taking care of…
08:50
your mind and your body. It might not be the sexiest thing to Instagram about, but I think when it’s off, it can actually bring you to rock bottom like it did for me. I was interviewing Ed Mylett and he was saying the same thing where we can’t pour from an empty vessel. In the profession that we’re in, we want to help everybody. We want to give. We want to do everything, but it’s honestly impossible to do it long term if we aren’t feeding ourselves, if we don’t pour into ourselves. Again, self-care can be your diet working out.
09:20
you’re very much in shape, so you are taking care of yourself that way as well, right? So without doing those things, we can’t expect to do these things long term. It’s almost like, you know, we have a Lamborghini and we’re just going to drive it until there’s no gas and there’s flat tires and there’s no oil. Well, it may look okay on the outside, but it’s one, it’s not going to be functional and two, it’s not going to survive what we want to try to take in the process. Totally. I like the vessel line I have in my book, You Can’t Pour From an Empty Cup. It’s the same idea, you know.
09:48
I think that especially as women, we want to be all things to all people. But ultimately what happens is we’re nothing to ourselves. And I think therein lies the problem. You know, I wanted to be a superwoman, this character who tried to be it all and do it all and be all things to all people, save the world looking sassy and some sweet boots and quok air like ain’t no thing. And I thought
10:11
Gosh, if I go back and look at the origin story of Superwoman, it’s a story of a woman who was saved by Superman, basically. And then she went on to save the world, looking super beautiful and perfect and clothed all the time, never taking a moment for herself. And I said, you know what? I don’t want to be that. I don’t want to be Superwoman, the one word version. I just want to be a super space woman, a woman who puts that oxygen mask on first.
10:39
A woman who knows that that space between super and woman allows for me, the woman. That’s awesome. And go back to that comment about, you know, pouring from an empty cup. If we’re able to pour into ourselves and really concentrate what’s in us, now we don’t have to pour out as much. Now we don’t have to burn ourselves out. We can just give a drop and still make the same sort of impact that can change lives and change destinies of other people without having to just continually empty ourselves in the process. And now.
11:08
we can’t continue to do it for more people. And that space like you’re talking about is so key. It’s so key. And I think oftentimes, especially as women, we think that we’re being selfish if we do that. And I went back because I did a social experiment. I tried to do this around the books to really understand the motivation of why this was happening in the zeitgeist. And I asked women to come in for a casting, and I asked them to list the top five things they value most. And they put it on a little whiteboard.
11:38
and they put amazing things. They put my house, my job, my kids, my dog, my car, food, God, you know, everything that’s very valuable, of course. Nobody, though, Marcus wrote themselves on the list. Not one woman put herself on the list of the top five things she valued. And she thought that that was selfish. So I dug through the definition of selfish and I found that part of the definition, because I’m a
12:06
you know, words lady and also a numbers lady, I said part of that is selfish is allowing for your own needs and pleasures. I don’t know. I don’t think that’s a criticism. I think that’s pretty sweet. I think that’s a compliment. And you know, it’s often used as a compliment for women is selfless. And part of that definition is having no concern for your own needs and pleasure. And that doesn’t seem like it should be a compliment. I think that should be a criticism. I think when somebody says that you’re selfish.
12:34
You know, rethink what that means and say thank you. Yeah, that is a compliment, right? I mean, that shows that you have value for yourself as well as other people. That’s tremendous. You know, I used to have workouts with myself, as you mentioned, but if I had a meeting that came up, I would say like, absolutely, I totally have all the time to take that meeting. And the truth is I had a date with myself and I would have thought 50 times before canceling on this meeting.
13:03
But I wouldn’t have thought to cancel on myself. And I think that’s the issue is valuing yourself first. And if you don’t value your time, no one else will. That’s so true. And just like you said, so that’s why we put it in the calendar. You put it as something that has to be done, not this, okay, if I happen to have an hour and a half block, I’ll go out and get to it. Like you said, you wouldn’t do that about your 401k. You wouldn’t do that about your business. You wouldn’t do that about your house. You wouldn’t do that about anything important. And like you said,
13:30
We are absolutely the things that we should be taking care of, not just ourselves but our own self-care. Nicole, what is one piece of advice that you could give our listeners that if they were able to apply it in the next 24 hours, they would see it move the needle in their life and in their self-confidence? I would encourage everyone to count how many times you say, I’m sorry, during a day. I love that. Love that. I talked about this in my second book because I felt like I was apologizing for basically existing.
14:00
I mean, I think women do this more often. Men do say, I’m sorry, according to studies, but only when they did something wrong, which is often. But you know, apologize. If you did something wrong, apologize. But if somebody bumps into you, you did nothing wrong and there was no need to apologize. And so I think that the language we use is so important in the way that others perceive us and the way we perceive ourselves. So if you’re constantly apologizing, like, listen, we’re all…
14:29
late to things. Life happens. You know what happens. But instead, you can change your mindset and say, thank you so much for your patience. Let’s get going. Not, you know, I’m sorry 50 times. TMI, TMI. Here’s what happened. It’s like, no, you know what? Value yourself and you don’t need to apologize for things you didn’t do wrong. It just puts you in a place of weakness. So once I actually calculated how many times I said I’m sorry, I think it was about 50.
14:57
Then I had the self-awareness to know that that was a problem. And then I just, anytime I wanted to say I’m sorry, I was like, oh, can’t add to that tally. Think of something else to say. So you’re almost having this disempowering mantra that you were just repeating 50 times a day. Totally. And I think that we should say thank you more. That’s a really good phrase to swap out. I think especially as women, we don’t take…
15:24
very often. We often put ourselves down that way too. You know, if somebody says you have great hair or whatever, you know, my former self would have said, oh god, you know, I had dry shampoo. It’s so windy, which all of this stuff is true by the way. Like, I don’t know when last time I washed my hair was, truthfully. And instead, I would say like, but your hair looks amazing. And now I just say thank you.
15:52
so basic and obvious, but it’s taken me a really long time to take a compliment and move on and not put myself down or in a place of weakness. And I’ve also tried to practice saying no more often. If it’s not a hell yes, it’s no. Maybe it’s a no. And I think that you can have boundaries for everything in your life, even when you’re talking to a superior, even if you’re talking to your parent. No is a complete sentence.
16:22
It absolutely is and it should be treated as such. And to piggyback on what you were talking about before, if you give somebody a compliment and then they just sort of shoo it away, it almost makes us feel bad about trying to point that out. So it’s almost like you don’t appreciate the fact that I recognize that your hair looks great or that you’ve taken the time to do this. Your hair looks great too, Marcus. Well, you know, it’s all the lighting is what I’m trying to do here. So I try to get it all in there, but that’s the thing. I mean, it’s almost like a reverse insult to this person to say, oh no, that’s not a big deal.
16:51
I also heard, I believe Peter and Tia talked about the fact that when he says, if somebody gives him a compliment, he says, thank you, I did a lot of work to get there. And it reinforces in us that we did a lot of work to get there and we’re actually worthy of the compliment. So I think that’s a good way to look at it. You can also help your friends stay honest about that too. When you hear your friends do this, you know, they’ll put themselves down often. You know, I have some girlfriends who will say, oh, I look so bad or I look so bad.
17:20
or whatever and I say, stop talking about my friend like that. Because if somebody else said those mean things about you, I would punch them in the face or gouge their eyes out. So you’re not allowed to talk about my friend like that. That’s fantastic. I love that. There’s another part about internal dialogue as well that we don’t understand that the way that we talk to ourselves is the way that we will eventually talk to the people that are closest to us. So like you said, if you said something to somebody in anger and lashed out and you’re like, man, I feel horrible for that.
17:50
Well, then that means that it’s important to kind of go through that internal dialogue. The verbiage is important, the way that you think about it. Then, of course, the emotions and hormones that are responding from that as well are important too. Your books are incredible and I recommend everybody grab your books for sure. Go to NicoleLappin.com to get some. What is the one book that you would recommend to people to help them kind of get this empowerment or to help them outside of your own books to see more of what we’re talking about? I love Aliza Lick.
18:19
book, Leave Your Mark. She was the DKNYPR girl. She’s a great friend of mine and Showcase’s book, The Big Life. She was the editor-in-chief of Seventeen magazine. And so I think that, first of all, I’m an ultimate woman’s woman. I put my money where my mouth is. So I love to support my female friends and the work they’ve done. You know, I haven’t birthed actual human babies, but now I’ve birthed three and a half with the journal. Maybe it’s four.
18:48
if you count a journalism book, book babies, and it’s no joke. You know, there’s no epidural for that. And, you know, it’s a feat. I haven’t really stopped to think about what an accomplishment it is. And so I really love to support my female friends who are on the same mission as I am. I think that, you know, there is this misconception that we’re competing against each other or something. No, it’s not a zero-sum game. You know, just I share all my spreadsheets and documents about how I launched my book with all of my
19:17
They’re all in Google Docs. I share them. They have books coming out the same week or the same month as me. Get all these press people. Here are a bunch of companies that do bulk pre-orders. Here are a bunch of women’s groups that do marketing campaigns. Get after it. Just because they’re doing something with you doesn’t mean they can’t do something with me. Doesn’t mean we all can’t win. So I think that there should just be more of it.
19:44
I agree. And frankly, if they’re buying your book and they’re already at the store, why not pick up your friend’s book? If they’re going to drop 25 bucks or 30 bucks, why not drop another one to get something that is along the same lines? And now you’re reinforcing that as opposed to like you said, it’s this competitiveness that ties going to rise all the ships in the process. Amen. Absolutely. I love that. Now you’ve talked about some incredible pieces of advice earlier. What do you think is the number one worst piece of advice that you hear continually perpetuated in this space? Because there are so many people that are out there that are
20:14
under this delusion that if they just keep saying something or maybe it just sounds good, you know, there’s a million, you can say as many as you want, but chances are there’s one that comes to your mind. I think the one in this space that you play so well in is go out and do what you love. And the reason that I say that is while it is lovely to go out and do what you love, I actually didn’t have the luxury of doing that. So I needed to love what I did. And
20:42
you can burn your corporate bra like YOLO, FOMO, go out and do that alpaca farm you’ve always imagined. If not now, when? I mean, these are great encouraging statements that a lot of entrepreneurial experts will say. I just don’t know if that’s realistic. Money and business was the last thing I thought I loved, like the last thing I ever wanted to do. My boyfriend in high school said he wanted to be a hedge fund manager.
21:12
I thought he wanted to be in gardening. I was so clueless. I was like the Burnett L. Woods. I knew nothing about what was going on. I broke out into hives. My armpits were so sweaty, even thinking about money, the language of money or Wall Street or like I started on the floor of the Chicago Merc at 18. I was freaked out every single day. I was like, why am I doing this? I ultimately went to CNBC. I was like, I’m helping old rich white men get more rich. This sucks.
21:41
And the truth is I needed a job. I just needed a J-O-B. I didn’t have a couch to crash on. I didn’t have a trust fund. There is no shame in supporting yourself. There’s no shame in feeding your family. And so I think while I love this entrepreneurial spirit and especially as strong as it is in the zeitgeist, even when I was coming up in the business, and as you were, I think that there just needs to be a little bit of practicality with it.
22:11
And so I wanted to be a poet growing up, actually. So I started as an English major. I was a dancer growing up. In high school, I went to like a fame type school. So I was a dance major. Lots of jazz hands, lots of jazz hands. Jazz hands for days. And I started as wanting to be an English major and like sit under a tree and write poetry. And then I was like, oh, I have to write the bells. And you know, what’s interesting is that I took the opportunities I had, and then I took.
22:40
what I loved and I had to find the shaded part of that Venn diagram. And if you asked me to like, from scratch, pick what I’d love to do, it wouldn’t be this, truthfully. But I became a writer, just not the kind I expected. And so that’s how I figured out how to love what I did. I loved the opportunities that I had, and I smushed them in with the things that I love to do. And I love that.
23:06
Ving diagram mentality, whether it be the Iki guy or I talk about it with five circles, but it’s the same thing where Elon Musk, all these people that are doing revolutionary stuff, chances are they have expertise in one area and then they combine that with two or three other areas where they’re an expert or at least very advanced in and now those concepts overlie. Bruce Lee says, you absorb what is useful, you discard what is useless, and you add what is specifically your own. Frankly, as an entrepreneurial mantra, I can’t think of a better idea.
23:34
You go through and you say, I had this idea, this spirit of a writer, but this is where my voice is, or this is where my audience is, or this is where I find opportunity. And there’s nothing wrong with that. As a matter of fact, that is the key to success is being able to trust yourself enough to develop those skill sets. And then again, to have that empathy and that trust in yourself to move forward in that. And that’s when you start to really uncover the magic. I totally agree. And that I didn’t even expect to find magic in this area. And you know, I…
24:04
hated it so much that sometimes you’re drawn to the things that you don’t know or the things that hurt you most. And you come from a different perspective. And while this is the least likely thing I ever thought I would be doing ever, ever, ever, it is 100% without a doubt my calling. And I just really leaned into that discomfort along the way until I got to the other side. It wasn’t…
24:31
easy along the way. I felt like I walked through fire in some senses to get to the other side, trying to hold some buckets of water for those still in the flames, because I know that my former self would have loved the content that I have now. So I’m really trying to speak to her. And now I ultimately know that this is what I love to do. But for many years, for maybe 20 years, it wasn’t that way. That’s what’s so important.
24:59
Now, Nicole, you alluded to your time when you had sort of a breakdown and you talked about how important it was to kind of get yourself back to you, but you also mentioned that you’re a first generation American, is that correct? Yeah, my family immigrated from Israel. Okay. And separately. So my parents were brilliant in many ways, but also…
25:24
really troubled in many ways. So my father ultimately died of a drug overdose when I was seven, but he was a brilliant surgeon who invented new ways of doing surgery and dialysis and new ways of thinking about medicine. So the public fame and private struggle has really been branded in my DNA without me even knowing. And growing up in…
25:53
what was almost a lifetime movie of cinematic trauma really helped me understand the value of finding my own path, finding my own voice, but also confronting what had come before. I didn’t even know that PTSD was something that folks who didn’t go to war could have. Like I didn’t, nobody really educates us on the financial stuff we talked about or mental health.
26:21
You know, I was so embarrassed to go to a psychiatrist for the first time, I felt like I wore a trench coat and like got antidepressants, I put them in a different bottle and then I felt better and I never took them again and then I never went back and I thought I’d take my friends. This is bananas to me thinking back on this. Now I’ve obviously become much more educated, but I had to do it the hard way and I hope that others don’t go through what I did to come to a healthier balance there. So yeah, once I…
26:50
could understand and articulate that I had post-traumatic stress disorder. I could figure out ways to tackle it. I could find therapies. EMDR has really helped me, for instance. And I looked at what I thought was my biggest problem, and I needed to then reframe that as actually what was my biggest superpower. I never thought that I would categorize a
27:16
PTSD diagnosis as a superpower, but it’s true. If I didn’t have those times of really deep depression or times of hyper arousal, which is part of the definition or in the DSM-5 diagnosis, not the sexy kind of arousal, but like times of hyperactivity and work, I wouldn’t have the platform that I have now. I wouldn’t be talking to you right now. And so I don’t wish I was different. It’s given me
27:45
the voice that I have today. So that’s why, you know, I’ve had to make friends with what I thought was my biggest enemy and what had haunted me the most. That’s why I’m glad that you’re talking about this because people will see you and they’ll see New York Times, you know, multiple New York Times best-selling author and you’re crushing it. But then they can see and they think, well, she’s got it all together. She doesn’t know what this feels like or she hasn’t been through self-doubt or acknowledged shame and understood how important that is. Or again, they just think that you’re this
28:14
somebody from the outside who doesn’t know you may just think that you’re this incredible person, which you are incredible. But seeing the struggle that you went through and seeing how you didn’t have everything just handed to you, and frankly, the things that we don’t work for, we don’t respect. So you have almost more of this love and appreciation for what you do, which is obvious in your, I mean, in this last book, it’s almost like you just bled onto the page. And that’s why it’s so important because that’s what’s going to actually help people. The first two books will help people a lot, but…
28:43
this last one where you’re really talking about the importance of these things gives people that permission, gives those people that opportunity to find that space and give it to themselves as well. I love the quote, Bleeding on the Page. It’s one of the ones I looked at as I was actually writing this. The only way I know how to tell a story is to tell it really honestly. I’m a terrible liar. And so I just try not to mess around with lies because I hate them and keep track. But in the beginning of this interview, I had mentioned that I was going to come out with this book.
29:13
two years later in March for no other reason than, and nobody would even know or care besides me, but as I was going to print, I felt like I was on the verge of burnout yet again. I felt like the imposter syndrome that I thought I got rid of, when I thought my badge wasn’t gonna work at CNN, I thought they were gonna find me out, I got rid of that imposter syndrome. She came back to haunt me and I stopped the production of the book.
29:42
and I pushed it out six months, which my former self would have never done. And I went off the grid and I actually read my own book. And this is not a marketing spin. This is not PR stuff. I, I was like, first of all, who wrote this? This is pretty good. It looked foreign to me. I got really cocky. You know, I felt like I’d gone on all these adventures and got to Bali and met with healers and done every class and done an outpatient program and really crushed this balance game.
30:10
I was good and I was like, okay, I know what this is like to go on a book tour. I’ll get back to this ballot stuff later when the chaos goes away. But chaos and balance have to coexist. It can’t be chaos or balance. It has to be chaos and balance. And the truth is I have a lifetime of bad habits and only a lifetime of good habits was going to counteract that. And so, you know, we look at balance oftentimes as a noun.
30:40
But like we found balance. You know, I think it should be used more as a verb. It’s something that’s constantly in motion. It’s something you constantly have to work on and it’s something you constantly have to be a fierce participant in. So, you know, I, going off that grid and I wrote this in an epilogue at the end of the book was, you know, one of the most powerful parts of it because I realized that not only am I the writer of this book, but I’m a lifelong reader. That’s the thing too.
31:08
you’re missing imposter syndrome and how even though you’re leveling up, these things continue to come back. And the reality is adversity is omnipresent. And we are only as strong as the adversity that we ever come. But it’s easy to say that after we’ve gone through it, when we’re on the other side, when we’ve walked through the fire. What is the things that you would say to yourself when you were going through the middle of that? What were you saying when it felt like you were an imposter or this book’s going to, I’ve got this pressure because these other two books were amazing and that this one doesn’t perform as well. Nobody’s going to respect me or…
31:38
They’re not gonna like me or I’m not gonna respect myself. You know, last year I had chronic hives like going into the book launch. I felt all of the things that you just outlined for sure. And I thought I shouldn’t be feeling these things, but you know, I would probably tell that girl that first of all, chill, it’s gonna be okay. And second of all, really define what success is because I became ravenous again around success
32:08
never a way for me to get to the other side because I was constantly moving the target. If it wasn’t five talk shows, it was 10. And then when it was 10, it was 15 appearances. And then it was like, it was never enough. And I then went off the grid yet again, I went off the grid a few times because I felt like I needed to take some of my own advice. And by the way, I don’t take my own advice every day. I for sure own that.
32:37
become an author, I would say, maybe don’t read your own reviews, but I know you will. So one of the reviews that I read about this book that was like Nicole probably is a do as I say, not do as I do kind of person. I’m like, that’s right. I don’t do this every day. That’s for sure. I’m not pretending that I have all good days. I’m not pretending that every day starts with gratitude and doesn’t start with me scrolling on my ex-boyfriend’s Instagram page. Like there are days that that happens.
33:05
There are for sure days that I start with gratitude and like figuring out my own intentions before I go through email rabbit holes But there are other days that I wake up and just chug You know a venti red eye pull my eyelashes off from the night before and like try to make something out of my life So I just eat more good days than bad days But I would tell that girl something that I learned right before this last book was coming out I went off the grid and did like some intensive therapy
33:34
spoke to success. I wish I could have included this in the book and I don’t think I’ve actually ever told anybody this. So I did this therapy where I came to this woman, I was like full of hives freaking out about this launch. I had done it twice before and she said talk to success. Put success in the chair across from you. You’re Nicole and you’re success. And I really had to come to terms with
34:01
what success meant. And I said to success, you’ve been there for me when nobody was. You got me through the darkest moments of my life. You changed my circumstances. I should have been a crack whore in an alley with like circumstances on the cards that I was dealt. But I’m the opposite of that. And you’ve always been there. And it was such a breakthrough for me because then I then sat in success’s chair and then talked to Nicole.
34:29
And it was such a powerful exercise that I really came to terms with like the idea that, you know, success said, listen, I got your back, but I can’t be the only one. And it really changed my perspective. I wish I just knew that earlier. And I really wish that I could have put some parameters around that when I was walking through fire, so to speak. Very good, the whole idea of changing the idea of the mentality and the shift.
34:54
Do you still do that? Do you find yourself doing that now with like fear or with adversity? Do I do the exercise or do I- Just do the exercise because that flips it. And like you said, that helps us change the mentality and it changes the difference from that stimulatory response. You know, I really try to define what success is along the way. I’m not perfect at it. And I definitely feel this insatiable ambition that I am so appreciative of.
35:23
because it’s gotten me to where I am today and I don’t wish I was different, but it really truly is insatiable. Like it doesn’t matter how much is in my bank account, I will work like I have no money. My biggest fear is being broke, alone and homeless. And if you hang out with me, if you know anything about me, like you would say that that’s irrational.
35:47
You know, my accountant is like, what is wrong with you? Like open your bank account, you’re fine. Like it’s all going to be okay. You have amazing friends. You have, then I just play forward the videotape. And we talked about Stoicism very briefly before we started. And I try to sometimes play out the worst case scenario. And so I try to come up with parameters, you know, and I try to appreciate the ambition for what it is. So like in the dialectics.
36:14
of DBT, which is, you know, what I suggest everyone learn in school, you do two things. You forgive your former self, but you say that that’s not okay moving forward. So like I have a lot of compassion for that girl. She did the best she could with the information she had. Also understanding them looks like I know more now moving forward. I don’t know if that made sense. But that’s kind of how I try to, you know, use my ambition to move me forward, but not.
36:43
I love that that was some free association and you get to some really powerful stuff there. Yeah. I play forward. I try to play for the worst case scenario too and say, you know, as so is the sun does, like we suffer more in imagination than in reality. And what would actually happen? Let’s say that all the deals that you’re working on fell through. Let’s say that the book industry for some reason, like collapse. There’s no books in the world anymore. Let’s say the TV and everything else you do.
37:13
just went away. What would actually happen? Like, okay, maybe I would move in with Sarah, my best friend. That would be okay. Everything would be okay. If I actually just played out and fast forward and well, I guess we don’t have video tapes anymore. I remember when there was three quarter inch of tape, whatever the MP3 and MP4 is, and it’s actually going to be okay. And so that’s what I try to do on the right.
37:39
I love that. I do something with my clients where I call it the adversity scale and Ten is the worst thing you’ve ever been through and then zero is heaven on earth So for me, I look at everything I’m about to do and then say okay Is this gonna paralyze me or am I gonna die on the table? And then I’d say yeah, probably not And then it puts everything in perspective because emotion assassin eats the truth when we’re in the middle of something So by putting something on a piece of paper or just thinking about it, we step away from that
38:07
were able to have that third person perspective, like when you were speaking to success and success was speaking to you. And now we can be very honest and say, on a scale of zero to 10, this is maybe about a three. This person cut me off in traffic or this person’s rude to me at the store or at the restaurant. That’s okay, I don’t think it’s gonna hurt me. And I think that you do a fantastic job of punctuating the importance of being able to do these things. Because once we understand that at the end of the day, we are gonna be all right.
38:35
It allows us, it frees us. It allows us to really give and not have anything that holds us back or subconsciously sabotage ourselves in the process. Yeah, I try to check the facts a little bit too. And I write down a story that’s happening. If I feel like I’m starting to spin, I’ll say, okay, just write it real nasty. Here’s all the things that happened. Let’s say I lost a deal, you know, in business. And I said,
39:00
I’m gonna be broke, I’m gonna be alone and homeless, like the same audio that goes through. We all have these best hit stories. That’s my go-to one. I messed up my life, I’m gonna be broke, I’m gonna die in the gutter with cats, whatever. I’m never gonna have the family that I always wish, all of these things. And then, you know, I lost this deal, I’m never gonna make more money, I’m never gonna have more deals, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever’s going on in my head. And then I cross out all the editorialization. All the things that I don’t know.
39:29
And what’s really left with is I just lost the steal. Like I don’t know that I’m gonna be broke alone and homeless. I don’t know that I’m not gonna make more money. All of that is just, you know, is that mean girl inside your head. And I’ve had to really try to get that girl in check because she is so vicious. And that’s, you know, brings us back to talking to our friends and keeping them in check too, because I would never say if my best girlfriend,
39:58
lost a deal. You know, Sarah, you’re gonna be broke alone and homeless and die in the gutter. You totally suck. How could you do that? How could you be so stupid? No, I would be like, hey, baby, it’s gonna be okay. I love you so much. We’re gonna get through this. I like, give me a hug. But we don’t treat ourselves in that same way. And so I’ve really tried to give myself a hug, put a ring on my own finger, you know, and treat myself like my own best friend. So important. What makes you happy?
40:28
you just got me speechless. What truly makes me happy is living for myself. It sounds so almost cliche and basic, but I’ve done a lot of unwinding of how the picture looks and really waking up in my own life and feeling proud of that regardless of
40:57
when I think others will think. I grew up with parents that really cared a lot about this outward perception, but inside there was so much struggle. And so, you know, I think that happiness ultimately is knowing that you’re the only one that has to wake up in your life and being totally cool with that. And I’m getting there. It’s a work in progress, but I think you can be a work in progress and a masterpiece at the same time.
41:26
progression, not perfection, right? Progress and not perfection. I try that every day. There are a few steps forward, a few steps back, but ultimately, hopefully, we’re going in the right direction. Well, I think you’re on a fantastic trajectory right now. Nicole, thank you so much for being so honest and sharing your gift of adversity, for giving people hope to help them understand that they don’t have to have it figured out right now and that we usually figure it out in the process of going to the next destination. So thank you so much for being here today.
41:56
Nicole, where is the best place for our listeners to learn more about you and to see everything you’ve got going and to buy your books and to find out more about you? You can hang out with me at Nicole Lapin wherever social media is served. Or actually, I joined TikTok, which I’m pretty obsessed with as Nicole.Lapin. I don’t know who has Nicole Lapin. I need to find that lovely lady.
42:17
But I’m obsessed with TikTok lately. And I think there’s a lot of white space there, but nipollapin.com is where you’ll find the Money School or you can go to themoneyschool.com. I launched an online class to get together in the boss school, balance school, all the schools. All the schools, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, the podcast over here, that’s fantastic. What is the epic legacy that you wanna leave with your work, Nicole? I wanna democratize financial.
42:45
content. My legacy is to make this information as readily available as the BS stuff we learn right now, or our kids learn growing up, like how to dissect a frog and geometry and stuff that’s not going to necessarily be relevant in our lives, but how to do a business plan and do our taxes and how to practice mindfulness. I took a DBT class because I had to to get out of the hospital and it changed my life. Mindfulness, interpersonal effectiveness.
43:14
emotional regulation, those have affected my career more than anything else. Like you said, if we’re not taking care of the most important person, which is ourselves, then we can’t take care of anybody else. I want to thank you for tuning in. If you’re listening to this and you’re going through a hardship or adversity, I want you to understand that with the advice that Nicole’s given you, you can turn that into an epic win. If this was something that was valuable to you, if you feel that this is going to help somebody else, please share it with somebody else that needs to hear it or on social media. By all means, go follow Nicole as well.
43:43
And thank you so much for being here today with us, Nicole. I appreciate you. Can I come back? Absolutely. I’ll see you next season. And when I’m in New York, I’ll have to take you out for dinner. That’ll be awesome. That would be great. Absolutely. Thank you for listening to this episode of Acta Non Verba.
