On today’s episode Marcus Torgerson shares how he empowers people to “be nightmares for bad guys in the world and in their heads.” Listen in as Marcus and I discuss the tools needed to survive and thrive during violent encounters and how situational awareness can make a life changing difference in critical moments. We’ll also explore how Marcus helps individuals embrace micro adversities, why people live in fear of violence, and how to protect yourself by understanding the numbers of a dangerous situation.
With over four decades working within the personal security space, Marcus Torgerson has become a renowned instructor, mentor, and hand-to-hand combat expert.
You can learn more about Marcus at: https://marcustorgerson.com/
Episode Transcript:
00:32
Acta Non Verba is a Latin phrase that means actions and not words. If you wanna know what somebody truly believes, don’t listen to their words instead, observe their actions. I’m Marcus Aurelius Anderson, and my guest today truly embodies that phrase.
00:58
With over four decades of martial art experience, including three decades instructing self-defense and personal fitness, and two decades of working nightclub security, Marcus Torgerson is a respected expert in responding to and deescalating violent situations. Now, during the past 10 years, he’s had the privilege of traveling the globe, certifying men and women in over 20 countries to become propaganda instructors, conducting instructional seminars and rank testings. Here’s a big one. Marcus is the only…
01:27
non-Israeli on the International Krav Magrav Federation instructors team. That alone should tell you the caliber of this man. Currently, Marcus is teaching mentality and movement, providing students the tools to survive and thrive during violent encounters. Marcus is also part of the incredible 100 Deadliest Skills by Clint Emerson. This combat edition, the third edition in this 100 Deadliest Skills trilogy, the book serves as a companion guide to the 100 Deadliest Skills series.
01:52
And I highly recommend you pick that up. That’s with the Warrior Poets Society Network. And you can find all that information at Marcus Torgeson’s website. So his personal ethos, I love this. Listen, empowering people to be nightmares for bad guys in the world and in their heads. So if you want to actually learn how to do those things and how to defend yourself or somebody else, Marcus is your man. Marcus, I’m sorry I put a long intro on there, but I wanted to give everybody a taste of what you were really about. Thank you so much for being here today, brother. I appreciate your time. Well, I’m going to.
02:21
I’m gonna probably just leave after that intro, I’m just gonna drop. And I’ll come back later, because it’s pretty good. And everything you need to know, just listen to that over and over again. Just keep hearing that. Here’s the website, here’s a, go ahead and order this, you’re good. So that’s awesome. Well, I deeply appreciate, honestly, I deeply appreciate that you want me to be on the show, for one, I’m a late bloomer to your path. And since I’ve had you on the radar, it’s been very, very educational.
02:51
It’s very strange to talk to a person with the same name. I never know what’s a movie like. Hey, you. Hey, I am one. Now, if your name is Marcus, you’ve already won in my book. I’m happy to have that. That’s amazing. I should have just hit record at the very beginning, but I think we’re still going to capture a lot of magic and a lot of fire. This is technically a philosophy podcast, allegedly.
03:17
but there’s so much business of self-defense and personal development that we put in here and the people that listen are always wanting to learn those things. But can you give me sort of in a nutshell what your philosophy is, if there is one, or where you kind of came up with that? Was it from like martial arts? Was it an amalgam of different experiences in your life? What was, what is your personal philosophy? My philosophy has obviously evolved over the decades. And I have to say that what resonates with me now is
03:45
So that whole be a nightmare for bad guys, right? It’s a hashtag and it starts out people like, well, obviously you’re learning self-defense to do all that, yada, yada, yada. And that’s, that’s, that’s a small fraction of it. Be a nightmare for bad guys is really about the demons and ugliness in your brain, the negative and surging in your brain to be a nightmare for them. So they don’t want to come and, and haunt the front of your brain. And my, my real, like, this is, this is the base essence of me is.
04:15
compassion and forgiveness for ourselves. I’ve done things that I regret. I’m sure there’s not a person listening that hasn’t got some type of a regret in their past. And so my philosophy is have some compassion and empathy for that person you were at that time when you did those things, to still hate yourself for what you did.
04:41
five, 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago and bring it into today, it’s unfair because you are not the same individual today that you were back then. And if the person back then could know what you know now, well, you probably wouldn’t have done the same things. So let’s have a little empathy and compassion for ourselves and then move forward. So if I had a philosophy, that would be it. I think that’s a beautiful philosophy. And it’s very, again, it’s very transparent. It’s not.
05:08
putting ourselves on a pedestal or comparing ourselves to this other person or this deity or whatever, is understanding that we are human, we are fallible, and hopefully we evolve as we go and we learn from the mistakes. People in martial arts are always like, I either win or I learn, but I don’t think that they actually adapt. I think that they may fall and fail and face hardship or adversity, but if they don’t change the behavior and alter it, then they’re just gonna be stuck in this loop. And then like you said, that’s the definition of insanity.
05:35
It causes cognitive bias. So now we’re just feeding that loop again. And now all of a sudden, oh, it wasn’t my fault. It was their fault. And now we’re just stuck in this place where we can no longer grow and evolve. And we’re damned to repeat that process. Yeah. And I think that also who we associate with on a regular basis or where we’re getting our information or where we’re getting our compassion, where we’re getting any kind of outside information that is going to weigh heavily.
06:02
on how we think about ourselves or whatever. I mean, if you associate with a bunch of dirt bags and you’re the only non-dirt bag, well, it’s a cancer. And eventually you’re gonna be a dirt bag. On the opposite, on a more positive note, if I associate with people who are transparent and real and honest, whether I like it, what they have to say or not, then they’ll bring the best out of me. And that’s all that really matters, right? Like you said, we shouldn’t compare. And that is our society as a whole. As we look at Instagram, we look at Facebook, we look at social media
06:32
We see some famous person doing these fantastic work. I was like, who gives a shit? No. Did you get up and do one more repetition than you did the day before? Yes. Or I didn’t do as many. Did you do something? Yes. So take the small wins and embrace them. Nevermind what the rock or whoever else is doing because the rock don’t give a damn about you. So instead go and reach out to the person that does love you and say to them,
07:01
the
07:30
will assist you for getting through those dark times. And we all have dark times. If you don’t have dark times, then you scare me. There’s something wrong with you. And I will say there’s something wrong with you because everybody should have insecurity, doubt, fears, depressive. I mean, you can’t be a human being without those things. So with a friendship or a group of people, it helps us get through those things. So we’re not going stir crazy and.
07:58
feeling like we’re the only people on the planet that are going through this. Somebody once told me, you know, Marcus, you’re not special. And I kind of was like, well, that fucking sucks. You’re not special. Your, your tears, your insecurities, your fears, your doubts, your negative insurgency is the same as everybody else’s. What makes you special is the fact that you won’t allow them to take you to places that you’ve been in the past that are just detrimental.
08:27
So that’s the big reason why, you know, I talk about suicide on a regular basis. Or I talk, you know, the stuff that I ramble on about people think I’m doing it for them. I’m not, I’m doing it for me. Every time I talk into this phone, I’m actually talking to myself and you poor people are stuck listening to the nonsense that comes out. Well, even Steven Pressfield, he says, you know, every book I’ve ever written, it was been, I’m writing to myself, I’m writing to remind myself, or even in his latest book, a man at arms, Tulleman.
08:56
You know, he says that he wrote that character as something to endeavor to be worthy of, to have that sort of belief system and to actually live that sort of a life. Again, you know, it’s one thing to know the warrior’s path. It’s another thing entirely to live it every day, to be willing to do it when you don’t feel like doing it, when you’re tired, when your body hurts, when it would be easier to just take the easy route. But we also know that that route does not lead to any sort of growth or the destination is not what we want.
09:25
So understanding that, and I love that part that you pointed out there as well. I’ve had people say that, you know, I haven’t faced any adversity in my life. It’s like one that does scare me as well because it’s coming. Oh yeah. If you’re like at 25 and you haven’t felt anything yet, man, that adversity has had a long time to build some gravity. And when it catches you, it’s going to knock you the fuck out. But the other thing is a lot of times they don’t even understand that the, the hardship they’re going through is just that mediocrity.
09:53
just being just, you know, I’m not high enough up here to really, you know, be uncomfortable enough to be stuck like the ketchup bottle, but I’m also better than some of the people around me, whatever that may be. So now in their mind, they think, oh, well, you know, I’m doing fine. It’s like, no, no, no, no. Living in that middle ground, that quiet desperation, that is not going to get you where you wanna go. And the sooner that we can understand that, pain and discomfort are the best teachers. So you have to be willing to figure out how can I put myself in a position or a place where I can…
10:23
embrace these microadversities, these little bitty things that make me stronger. And that’s why your training, you and I talked about our love for Tony Blauer and our respect for him because again, you cut through all the bullshit. I remember reading Black Belt magazine when I was a wee lad and he made a statement saying if you can’t deal with the adrenaline dump, it doesn’t matter what your martial arts system was. And that hit me like a ton of bricks. I was like, because at that point it’s like I had a black belt in this traditional art and I had this and I was like, oh, I think I can defend myself. And then…
10:52
again, you almost get into a car wreck and now that adrenaline dumps and now you’re shaking, even though you’re okay. And I was like, I do not have the skill set to survive this thing. If it’s in a controlled environment and I feel comfortable or if I have time to react, but the stuff that you’re talking about, the stuff that you’re teaching, the stuff that Tony’s talking about and teaching, it’s not about, we don’t have that time to react. We don’t have that luxury of deciding it’s Hicks law, right? It’s like, if we have all these options, I have no option. But if I have two options, one is to run and one is to cover and not survive.
11:22
Yeah, that’s much more likely for me to be able to pull that off, especially in the heat of battle. I agree a thousand percent. And, you know, you bring up Tony. And so I bought his no fear program and a couple of the cerebral programs. And I’ve had people sit there and say, well, Marcus, you’ve been doing martial arts now 42 years, you know, and you’ve done all these things. What the fuck do you need to learn? I mean, how much? And I was like, whoa, hold on a second. As I get older, the truth is, it’s like a punch is only going to come.
11:51
a certain direction biomechanically, a kick, you know, you’re going to get ambushed only a certain way. It’s either coming from 360 degrees, top to bottom, like that’s, that’s what I know for sure. What I don’t know for sure is how the brain and the body, as you’ve mentioned, adrenaline dumps and all that stuff that goes with it. I know how I react, but the biggest hurdle I’ve had with training people around the world is finding ways to let them accept the fact that.
12:19
there’s going to be some stuff out of your control. Physiologically, there’s some stuff going on and let’s work on that mentality of, of being able to overcome the shit storm as quickly as possible. And if I know that I can’t explain all that shit simply, because like Einstein said, if you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it. Then I’m going to go find people that I respect that can do that. And Tony is, has forgotten more stuff about
12:49
the way that the body and brain react to violence than I will ever know in my lifetime. So the fact that he’s an old bastard that’s a Canadian is a bonus, okay? And Tony, when you’re listening to this, I love you, you old crusty bastard. But he really is one of the best in the world at what he does. And that’s my mission is to continually go and learn from whoever is going to benefit me.
13:16
so that I can spread that information in my own way to others. Because for whatever reason, I have a way of teaching that some people like and the people that do like it, right on. Let’s make all of us better. And I’m excited about that. Yeah. And I absolutely agree. I’m an instructor under Bruce Leach Protege, Guru Dan and Nassanto. And he’s in his 80s, right? And he still, once a week, has private lessons with other martial arts instructors.
13:46
no matter how young or old they are, because just like you’re saying, there’s only so many ways you can throw a punch, but how does this system do a little bit differently? What are the similarities? What can I assimilate? And he makes such a great point, just like what you’re talking about. When we’re in our 20s doing flying sidekicks, you know, in the snow and ice, maybe that’s plausible, but as you get older, it’s like, ah, that’s, I’m not going to stop and stretch and get ready and make sure it’s like, no, no.
14:13
The body we have in our 20s is not the body that we have in our 40s, our 50s. And the art that we learned at that time may not work at that point. But again, if you’re doing low line kicking, if you’re sticking fingers in people’s eyes, if you’re punching the soft tissue, if you’re using violence of action and just attacking with everything you have, surprising that person who is a would be predator and other like, where the hell did this person come from? It’s like, well, the warrior has always been in there and now you woke him up. And so now that the switch is on, there’s only one direction that we can go with us.
14:43
Yeah. So I, you know, you bring up Mr. Encento. And so I was blessed, I think three, four, maybe five years ago, he came to Texas to do a seminar. And one of the guys I was training trained at this other school. And he’s like, Hey, you want to come? And so he, he was gracious. He got me a ticket. We went and there was a whole bunch of stick shit. And, and what I didn’t know was it really was a come to Jesus meeting. He was reading everybody the riot act, all the instructors about, you know, you guys have been kind of screwing up.
15:10
So I’m going to sit there and wait, but just re re educate you on what’s important. Now, my, my student, my friend sat there and said, well, I’m sorry, you know, you didn’t really get to do stuff. I said, first of all, he’s a legend. And so there was two things I took away from it. One, I got to see a legend conduct a seminar and how he educates. And that man was born. Not only was he a high school teacher, but he was born to educate. Yes. You know? And then when he started saying a few things where
15:38
I’ve said the same thing only in my own verbiage. It gave me like my own little accreditation. Like I am doing the right thing because that fucking guy who I respect is saying the same shit right on. Excellent. And it was one of the best seminars I’ve ever attended. And I didn’t learn anything in the sense of any of the movements. And I also got to learn how to read the right act to people and not shit on them. He was still
16:08
You know, he spanked them, but he still didn’t make everybody feel like shit. He just let everybody know what’s going on in the food chain and how to do it. And with JKD in general, or that I don’t even like, and that’s what I mean. Just even the mere fact that I can’t call it JKD because there’s so many things. It upsets me as a fellow martial artist. I know you’ll understand this when Bruce Lee created all of this. The idea was to not have what we’re having right now. And it’s a
16:36
Krav Maga’s got it, karate’s got it, everything. It doesn’t matter, it’s a human nature thing. Two like-minded people will get pissed off and they’ll splinter off, get it. But at the base of it, what is the nucleus of what you’re supposed to do? With Krav Maga, it’s simple. Emi said, so one may walk in peace. He actually said, so man may walk in peace, but that was in the 40s, so women were a different situation there. But generally we’ve refrained it to, so one may walk in peace. Not one may walk in peace if you do it this way or that way or whatever, it’s one may walk in peace.
17:06
JKD in the beginning had one simple mantra and somehow it splintered into the shit show that it is and it breaks my heart. As a martial artist, it breaks my heart because I can’t see Bruce Lee smiling from having being like, yep, you guys are doing exactly what I didn’t want you to do. Thank you, Reetards. And that’s the thing. There’s so many people that want to, like you said, if you create a martial art and it turns into almost like a religious, like a dogmatic.
17:35
idea again, understanding that philosophy of absorbing what is useful, discarding what is useless and adding what is your own. Again, and like what you’re talking about, if there is truth in a martial art or a philosophy or religion or a belief system or anything, that truth always elevates and rises to the top and those things will always overlap. So that’s why we can, I can learn from you. I can learn from Tony. I can learn from anybody and say, listen, this, I put this through my bullshit filter and say, okay, that makes sense.
18:04
how can I apply that? And then even if it’s only a philosophical ideal or even this notion of again, situational awareness, right? Like when I would teach, like go to college courses and teach them, you know, personal self-defense for females. It’s like, listen, I can show you these techniques, but chances are in three hours, you may not retain them. But if you understand that you shouldn’t have your head in your phone, that you should have your keys out, have an idea of where you parked.
18:30
look around at least a little bit, have the body language of a person who’s at least paying attention. What does Tony Blar always say? He’s like, until you have situational awareness, I mean, that starts with personal awareness. And a lot of people don’t even have that. So all these notions, if you take them down low enough, deep enough, rather, beyond just this idea of self-defense, and you go deep with it, it’s like, what does this say about me as a person? People always talk about human rights, the biggest and most important fucking human right ever is defend yourself.
19:00
to defend your own life, to defend your family, to defend the lives of somebody else who can’t defend themselves. So if you don’t have that basic fundamental ideal, now what happens? Now we compromise. Now we start justifying our behavior. Of course. Have you read the book, Thick-Faced Black Heart? Are you familiar with that? It’s by Chen En-Choo. No. She’s passed away, but it is amazing. There’s a saying in there. She got it from the thick black theory in 1911, when the communists had taken over that government. And this…
19:29
person named Lee wrote a book and he said, basically, listen, there’s a time to turn the other cheek when you’re slapped. And there’s a time to slap back twice so you are never fucking slapped again. And the reason why is because a lot of people will take that false, oh, I’m going to take the high road and be passive. But it’s because they don’t have the capacity to be violent. Right. Yeah. They don’t have the ability to defend themselves. And therefore, they continually compromise their mentality. And when they do that, now it almost becomes a philosophical ideal. And now
19:58
have to continue to reaffirm that bias and now they’re stuck in this place where they can’t stand up for themselves, they shit on people that do, they feel threatened by somebody who’s not afraid and now all of a sudden this influences their entire worldview. Yeah and the worst part about all of that, if it was only that one person that it impacted, I could live with that. But that mentality, that mindset, that way of being spreads off to their children.
20:26
and spreads off to anybody else they care for. And then that’s where a cancerous mentality starts to spread. In the last bunch of years, the term alpha male or alpha this or blah, blah, blah, like these words have just been massacred because of the abuse of behavior on both sides of the spectrum. And that’s, I have a big problem with segregation, okay? I have a massive problem with segregation. I don’t believe that anybody should be separated
20:56
for whatever reasons. Everybody brings something to the table. Now, if I’m with somebody who is not predominantly violent or has apprehensiveness to violence, and as you said, justifies that by saying they’re a pacifist and all that stuff, and then shifts on the person that comes and kicks in the door to save their life, my biggest issue is that’s fear-based. It’s not based on anything other than your insecurity.
21:24
So why don’t we work on the insecurity and then see if you have that same philosophy afterwards. You don’t have to be, you know, John Wick when you’re thinking of what personal defense is. You mentioned situational awareness. Now there’s the word that is the most important word in the English language and it gets abused more than the word love. What is situational awareness? Situational awareness is our ability to see things happening before they happen. Hey man.
21:53
there’s a bull running down the street. Hmm, perhaps I should go in this alleyway that allows me not to get gored by their horns. So that’s okay, people listen to that and they’re like, oh, well, fuck, Marcus, of course that makes perfect sense. Okay, now we take the bull and we get rid of that beautiful creature and we put it to be a man.
22:20
I speak from a female perspective for a second, I see a man and there’s something inside me, some alarm going, this isn’t right. Their situational awareness. If you and I, if me and Marcus. Third person. If Marcus and I, the Marcus that’s with that I’m talking to right now, see how complicated that is? I know. Mr. Aurelius and I are walking down the street.
22:47
For whatever reason, my head’s in my ass, I’m not thinking about it. And you tap me on the show. You’re like, Marcus, you know what we should, uh, I think we should go left. I’m like, what the fuck you talking about? We got to go this way because it’s faster. You know what, Marcus? I have no explanation. I just need us to go left. Okay. Then we’ll go left. You’re paying for extra coffee because it’s going to take six miles to go because we all have an instinct inside of us. We are given by.
23:12
God, the universe, Allah, Buddha, you call it, whatever you call it, we’re given an intuition that allows us to know when something isn’t right. And we just never listen to it. Like they say women have a sixth sense, men have a sixth sense. The difference between men and women is women tend to listen to it sooner, or they at least acknowledge it. Men will not. They’re like, no, I got this. Of course, you know who I am? Kissing my biceps. I’m a fucking tough guy. And then and that’s how you end up in intensive care. So listen to your intuition.
23:42
And from intuition, there’s your situational awareness and open the scope. You said it perfectly. Get your head out of your phone. I had a, a YouTube podcast I did yesterday and we were talking about, you know, how do you do situational awareness? Well, if you have your phone, now I do this, I am guilty of this. I will walk, lift my head up and look around. I’m not really looking around. I’m fixing my neck because it’s been doing this down here. Turning my head around now.
24:10
If someone is pursuing me or someone is doing that, what they see is they see a man who is now turning their head head on the swivel and it gives the false illusion that I’m being aware of my surroundings. Now so I’m not always like that, but it is a good bullshit factor that it is enough of a deterrent to pause the predator. Well how hard is that? Everybody should be stretching their neck anyways, these damn phones are going to kill us anyhow. So it’s going to be out. Listen, I’ve said this before and I’m going to say it again. On my tombstone.
24:40
It’s gonna say here lies Marcus Torgerson. He just had to do that stupid Instagram post. He’ll tap this. That’s how I’ll end up dying, for sure. God has smiled on me so many times, there’s been cars that have been like, hey idiot, like, ah shit. Now I say that just to show that whatever perception you have of Marcus Torgerson, you’ve read the bullshit on the internet, and you’re like, well, this guy must know what he’s talking about.
25:10
I fuck up every day. Every day. I make some kind of tactical or personal error that I shake my head. I’m like, you really should know better than this at 52 with all the shit you’ve gone through in your lifetime. You should know better than that. Shame on you. Well, I fuck up on a regular basis and then I have to let it go. So if I can fuck up and I’m supposed to be some tactical dude and you’re just a regular person listening to such trying to find your path, give yourself a break.
25:39
and just try not to make the same mistake the exact same way. Again, you’ll make the same mistake, but just try not to make it identical to what you did previously. That’s it. Then there’s so much, just like you said, with Sixth Sense, women listen to it more often than men do because, again, men are tough guys. But like you said, when you train martial arts long enough, I did some security when I was in Atlanta as well, when I was bartending and working doors. It was the same thing where you don’t have to have the guy make the fist and measure and then start to swing. But
26:07
Just that small shift in body weight, just the body language, just the intention, just where he looks at you. That’s enough. So when you’re training the way that we’re talking about, you will pick up on those things. And when you’ve got that instinct, fucking trusted people. I mean, the gift of fear that book, right? Every single one of them, every example, whether it be a woman that was raped or a person that was jumped, like they talk about that and they say, listen, I had this feeling and I just kind of pushed it away. So
26:36
That instinct is in us and it’s been in us for millions of years and it will stay with us hereafter because that is a survival instinct. And here’s the thing, that doesn’t mean that you have to live your life in fear. No. I live, you’re in Texas, I live in Oklahoma and tornadoes come through here all the time, right? So right now I’m not worried about it, but I’m aware that if something happens or if there’s a siren that goes off, I take precautions. And what happens is the reason why so many people live in fear is because
27:04
They don’t know what precautions to take. They don’t have the skill sets that you’re teaching. They don’t have the skill sets that Tony’s teaching. They don’t have that mentality. And so if you and I are traveling cross country, we’re driving from Texas to go see Tony in California, and we’re driving and I was like, hey Marcus, did you bring water? Yeah, I got it. Did you bring this? Yeah, I got it. Do you have a spare? Yeah. Shit, I thought you had it. So what’s the one thing we’re always gonna worry about the whole time? Every time we hit a bump, oh man, I hope that was, and that’s the one thing. So if most people that are listening,
27:34
have a fire escape route, they have these other contingencies. If there is one contingency in your life that you need, it’s to be able to defend yourself, to have the skillset, to have the situational awareness. And if you can start with that as your foundation, you can build on that in any other direction. But until you have that, you’re going to compensate with all this other flowery bullshit to make you feel better, to give the false illusion that you are this person who is able to do these things.
28:02
And again, once you have that defense, like when I would teach children, even you would see them walk in and they would have this posture was different. They weren’t bullied at school. And then even when you have like a pushy salesman, it’s like, Hey Marcus, I need you to get you, but the minute you walk away from this, I’m like, dude, first of all, don’t, don’t bow up to me. Second of all, um, the fact that you’re having to do this shows me that this is not what I want. So on principle, I’m going to walk away. And so all those instincts, again, that one skill set.
28:31
translates to every other arena of your life if you are willing to listen to it and cultivate the skill set. Yeah, I agree a thousand percent. So I’m trying to get through a book called Left of Bang and I’m doing it on the audiobook and it’s just it’s like watching paint dry because it should be a book that’s read, not listened to. Okay. And the fact the guy reading it is just it’s killing me. And the point of it is that it’s just bringing up.
29:00
cues of huma, like human cues and, and I could put it in layman’s term, you know, you always hear about poker players and they’re studying the tells of, of the other players. Well, when you’re really good at this left of bang hunter or Marine course or whatever, actually I hear it’s in the army as well. You’re, you’re looking for anomalies in behaviors that tell things before an event happens. Now, if you can be present in the moment, which is where this is the bottom line.
29:30
Nobody is present in the moment because we’re always thinking about yesterday or what’s going to happen in five minutes or whatever. We’re very, very rarely are we right now, right this second. Even unfortunate as I’m having this conversation, I’m still kind of thinking about what am I going to say afterwards? I have to check myself like, fuck it, just let it out. Don’t think about what’s going to happen. Don’t do any of that. If we can get as close to that philosophy of stay present in the moment and observe
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your surroundings, as well as listening to your body. I don’t know if it would kill 90% of the attacks, but it sure as shit would put you as a very uncomfortable person to try to attack. Because when you are present in the moment, you are listening to the birds, you are looking around, you are seeing people, you are smiling and saying good morning to people. Well, never mind the fact that every human should just do that anyways. Wouldn’t the world be a beautiful place at badminton?
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But if we’re going to keep on the same thought process about being aware and situational awareness, well, that changes the scope of a predator’s attack because you are no longer worse the headache, hard target, soft target. Like these verbiages, while you and I speak that no problem, as soon as you and I say hard target, soft target, we’re going to lose 10% of the people listening because they’re like, well, I don’t like those words because I’m bad. Okay. So let’s just make yourself uncomfortable to attack.
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Right? It’s funny how words have so much impact, positively and negatively, and our lack of ability to alter our verbiage so that the person I’m speaking to will understand what I’m trying to say. Right? Right? Like the stoic, I’m very new to the stoic of philosophy. And I’ve got a friend of mine, Bradley, who’s really turned me on to it. He’s like, he’s really, he’s really like
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Some of it makes perfect sense and thank God for memes because, you know, I learn a lot just through memes and I will ingest the Marcus Aurelius books, but until I can translate them into words that everybody will understand because if I can do that then I really am understanding it and embracing something that I really believe I was meant to learn this late in life. I don’t believe 10 years ago
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And somebody said, here’s a book on Marcus Aurelius’ thoughts and words. Meditations, yeah. Meditations. I doubt I would have been in the place 10 years ago to or 20 years ago or 30 years ago to fully appreciate or understand the depth of importance of those words. Yeah. Right? And that’s the thing that if you’re listening to this right now and everything we’ve talked about, you’re like, well, what the fuck? I’m not a self-defense person. I’m not a Kung Fu karate hi-yah person.
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At some point in time, violence will enter your life, if it hasn’t already. Now, if it hasn’t entered your life yet, you may not be prepared mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually, versely, all the least to handle violence. You may have to be like many of us where after the violence happens, as a reaction, you alter how you understand violence because human beings, it’s really about timing, right? Right. Isn’t it like.
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The people we fall in love with is the time at that time, whether it works out or not is not the point, but at that point time, our lives are supposed to match. And we had some shared some moments and times and then it ends or doesn’t end, doesn’t matter. But everything has to do with the timing. And that’s why like this podcast, being on this podcast, I might not have been on this podcast. Let’s, how long ago did you start it? I started it last year. I’ve had another podcast for a while. Right. Let’s say, let’s say a year ago you came up. It might not have been the right time.
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I might not have been able to fully understand and appreciate what you bring to this conversation. I’m thankful that now at this moment we’re having this conversation and I’m thankful for what I’m learning from it. But give yourself some slack, man. If you don’t get it, it doesn’t mean that you’re not supposed to. It just means that at this moment you’re not supposed to understand this specific situation. But we still got to learn though. That’s it. The only way to learn is through pain and discomfort and our best teachers are less
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last punch in the face, right? So it’s like, yeah, okay, I don’t want that to happen again. And me, like my grandfather gave me the name Marcus Aurelius, right? So I started doing like Taekwondo when I’m 11. And when I’m 12, I go to the bookstore on my birthday, because I want to buy this book about this guy. And like you said, I’m trying to read meditations. And I’m like, the thus, the with the theft, the theft, and it’s just way over my head. And I’m like,
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Okay, so
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I’m walking, it’s in the philosophy section, and I tell the woman, I was like, are there any other books? She’s like, no, this is the only book that he wrote. And now I’m just like defeated. As I’m walking down the aisle to leave, I see this book faced out with this Chinese writing on it, which reminded me of the writing in the school. And I pick it up and I open it up just on a whim. And it says, continue to sharpen your blade and it will go blunt. Continue to pour into your cup and it will overflow. Continue to worry about the opinions of others and you become their prisoner.
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And even at 12 years old, I was like, okay, this, I can this, okay, this makes sense to me. Like, I don’t know all of it. But I understand a little bit of it. And it was the doubt aging. Yeah. So that was the book that I read and started to go into Zen and Buddhism and all those other things. And that became my gateway dread, the gateway philosophy or gateway drug to actually understand stoicism later. But like you said, until I had like that foundation of minimalism, simplicity, being present.
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let go of this shit. And then again, in the martial arts, you know, it’s sort of embedded in there between the old books like Zen and the martial arts and even some of Bruce Lee stuff. The idea was understanding that, listen, I need to anticipate what this person’s doing. And now that I see the body language now, I know, okay, the attack is probably coming from here, it’s probably a right cross, I can step into it and get knocked the hell out, or I can try to do X, Y, and Z, whatever it is. And that’s why it’s, again, that, like you said, at that time, it all comes together. So hopefully, if you’re listening to us right now,
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what we’re saying, something resonates with you, something sticks and makes you go, huh, I want to explore this, whether it be Marcus’s courses, training with him in person, you know, Marcus’s book, anything. The idea is to go through and say, listen, this is what I’m trying to do. And what they said really made sense to me. And that’s how you start to eventually find your path. Yeah. And I’ll say this, and I’ve said this in the past, if somebody’s listening, they’re like, okay, I kind of get it, but I don’t get it. Then.
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Now with technology, there’s this thing called emails or direct messages. It takes however long, like, and I get messages from all over the world. And just like some of them, I’m like, Jesus Christ, it’s going to take me four hours to read this. Please keep it simple, man. Do it in bullet points. Please. But the truth is, is if you don’t know something, send a message. You’re like, Hey, Marcus Torgerson, what the fuck did you mean by this? And I’ll probably be like, I don’t remember saying that, but.
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We’re having the dialogue and here go and do this because at the end of the day, you’re going to listen to this and how much you’re actually going to understand. But if it’s spurt something and you’re like, Oh, catchphrase or there’s a word, I get it. Write it down and send a message between Facebook, Instagram, emails, fucking smoke signals. Like there’s no way. Anybody cannot have some kind of conversation. Right. It’s, it’s, it’s impossible. Fuck. If I have to, I’ll send you my, my, my phone and you can text message me.
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Don’t call me though. I hate talking on the phone. All jokes aside, and I’m thankful for zoom, like being able to see. Yes. Because in the past I’ve had to do some where it’s been just phoned in and you can’t see the reaction and I need to see the reaction because I’m, I’m very mindful of someone’s facial or body behaviors in a safe environment like this with two guys that are talking. It’s still important. Am I, am I upsetting that person? Am I
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Am I losing them? Am I saying things that’s going over their head? They’re smiling. That’s good. Are they smiling at me or they laughing at me? Like again, all these things. So I’m very thankful for this setup that we have going on, but send a message or anything that either of us has said or contact us and, and, and ask the question, start the dialogue. Cause you don’t know everything. If there’s one thing I’ve learned from Tony is that I don’t know everything. And I want to know what I want to know.
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And I need to go find and search out the people that know it better than I. Now, whether that’s Tony or a guy on the street or a five year old kid, well, all of a sudden has been like, well, no, you got across the street. Look both ways so you don’t get schmucked. I think we forget sometimes that kids give us the single best information around because they have not got the garbage that we have in our heads. Right. So if you’re listening, you have kids.
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listen to them because they probably have some gems that we constantly like, no, no, no, no, and we’re shutting them up and we’re just let those kids have a conversation because you’d be amazed at the shit that comes out of their mouth. Sometimes it’s stupid, but at the end of the day, if you don’t say stupid things, how are you supposed to say smart things? That’s exactly it. And the truth is unchanging. It’s our understanding of it that’s ever evolving. Yeah. So that’s why we’re always in that place trying to learn. That was part one of my interview with Marcus Torgersen, world renowned instructor.
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mentor, and hand-to-hand combat expert. You can hear part two of the interview on the next episode of Octo Non Verba, where Marcus returns to share how individuals develop protective skillsets out of necessity and how they are changed by trauma. Marcus and I also dive into how adversity is omnipresent, the importance of leading your family and team by example, and how to cultivate and access the warrior within all of us. You can learn more about Marcus at marcustorgerson.com.
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Thank you for listening to this episode of Acta Non Verba.
